The 2021 IECC and the IECC in general has good intention, but promotes bad design.

[PE (always learning)]

I kind of discussed this already under the business management / estimating part of the forum, but felt that was not the right place to really talk about this subject. Moderators, please don't be mad if you feel this is a repeat of information, I've actually added several more points to my list.

The IECC has always been a thorn in my side to begin with, but now with the 2021 IECC my rage grows even more. The IECC in my opinion has good intentions, but promotes bad design and in the end I think is mostly fruitless in it's ideals to conserve energy. Several points I wanted to make below:

1) How much energy savings are we really getting with all of the occupancy sensors and daylight sensing controls being added on our projects when compared to the production cost and energy it takes to create them? I understand that for large facilities this makes sense, but it just feels like a lobbyist got into the codes and went crazy with trying to promote sensing controls on every little thing we design.

2) Now with the IECC 2021, we have to provide special metering on any new building over 25,000 square feet. These meters have to be placed so that they can measure each type of load on a project. For instance, we have to parcel out our loads on panels so that HVAC, lighting, process loads, receptacle loads, ect. are separated. What If I want to use a panel for mixed use and I have no other close panel to pull from? I think the IECC is promoting bad design and actually adding unnecessary cost to the project. Why can't the utility give us the same information from their metering?

3) I think that the IECC sometimes even conflicts with life safety issues. There was a dental office I was working on where we had a surgery room and the authority having jurisdiction forced me to put occupancy sensors in the surgery room. This felt like a major life safety issue in the fact that if the occupancy sensor shut off while the doctor was mid surgery it could cause some serious issues. I argued with the authority having jurisdiction, but they still made me put in the occupancy sensors.

4) They have now gone to all online and you need to register an account with them in order to do the COMcheck for the IECC 2021. I have no clue why they made this change. Downloading the program onto my computer worked just fine before. Now what do I do if my internet is down or their website is having problems? This really boils my blood that we can't have the program downloaded onto our computers anymore.

5) The IECC 2021 has been adopted state wide in the state of Illinois, but I'm doing a project in East Saint Louis (East Saint Louis is in Illinois for those who don't know) that still references the IECC 2009 on their building code website. Who enforces the latest IECC and what version do I use when their website clearly calls out an earlier one. I should probably use the latest code, but this conflicting information is annoying, why do a state wide mandate when all these municipalities have their own building code references.

I think that the IECC was written by bureaucrats who don't understand design and lobbyist who just want to promote the sales of their controls to everyone, which again, how much money and energy are we really saving when every building has to have special building control systems that take time and energy to create and design.

Vent over.

 

[macmikeman]

I think perhaps what with all the Tik Tok dancing going on in the hospitals with the doctors and nurses, there perhaps is never any chance of confusing the motion sensors that there is no one in the room.........

On the serious side, I agree fully with you, the new attached mandates are in my opinion much of an agenda as any I have ever seen.

 

[Ragin Cajun]

Totally agree with the original poster.
Too many new proposals are made to benefit the manufacturers.

RC

 

[topgone]

I kind of discussed this already under the business management / estimating part of the forum, but felt that was not the right place to really talk about this subject. Moderators, please don't be mad if you feel this is a repeat of information, I've actually added several more points to my list.

The IECC has always been a thorn in my side to begin with, but now with the 2021 IECC my rage grows even more. The IECC in my opinion has good intentions, but promotes bad design and in the end I think is mostly fruitless in it's ideals to conserve energy. Several points I wanted to make below:

1) How much energy savings are we really getting with all of the occupancy sensors and daylight sensing controls being added on our projects when compared to the production cost and energy it takes to create them? I understand that for large facilities this makes sense, but it just feels like a lobbyist got into the codes and went crazy with trying to promote sensing controls on every little thing we design.

2) Now with the IECC 2021, we have to provide special metering on any new building over 25,000 square feet. These meters have to be placed so that they can measure each type of load on a project. For instance, we have to parcel out our loads on panels so that HVAC, lighting, process loads, receptacle loads, ect. are separated. What If I want to use a panel for mixed use and I have no other close panel to pull from? I think the IECC is promoting bad design and actually adding unnecessary cost to the project. Why can't the utility give us the same information from their metering?

3) I think that the IECC sometimes even conflicts with life safety issues. There was a dental office I was working on where we had a surgery room and the authority having jurisdiction forced me to put occupancy sensors in the surgery room. This felt like a major life safety issue in the fact that if the occupancy sensor shut off while the doctor was mid surgery it could cause some serious issues. I argued with the authority having jurisdiction, but they still made me put in the occupancy sensors.

4) They have now gone to all online and you need to register an account with them in order to do the COMcheck for the IECC 2021. I have no clue why they made this change. Downloading the program onto my computer worked just fine before. Now what do I do if my internet is down or their website is having problems? This really boils my blood that we can't have the program downloaded onto our computers anymore.

5) The IECC 2021 has been adopted state wide in the state of Illinois, but I'm doing a project in East Saint Louis (East Saint Louis is in Illinois for those who don't know) that still references the IECC 2009 on their building code website. Who enforces the latest IECC and what version do I use when their website clearly calls out an earlier one. I should probably use the latest code, but this conflicting information is annoying, why do a state wide mandate when all these municipalities have their own building code references.

I think that the IECC was written by bureaucrats who don't understand design and lobbyist who just want to promote the sales of their controls to everyone, which again, how much money and energy are we really saving when every building has to have special building control systems that take time and energy to create and design.

Vent over.

Those are two opposing goals; one for good design and the other for energy conservation/ efficiency. One can design a device with multiple ways of utility but is inefficient/ wasteful. In the same vein, an efficient device won't sit well with customers simply because they are very expensive. A middle ground has to be met there, IMO.

 

[Johnhall30]

That is absurd they enforced occupant sensor control in a surgery room. That is endangering the occupants and should comply with an exception in the code.

Yes it is being pushed by the lighting controls manufactures they are making a killing off these updates. and the cost of projects is skyrocketing and the maintenance and use of these lighting systems is becoming more difficult.

 

[PE (always learning)]

That is absurd they enforced occupant sensor control in a surgery room. That is endangering the occupants and should comply with an exception in the code.

Yes it is being pushed by the lighting controls manufactures they are making a killing off these updates. and the cost of projects is skyrocketing and the maintenance and use of these lighting systems is becoming more difficult.

This is the kind of idiocy that goes on with these people. They only see the code requirement and not the common sense.

Also, I agree that the lighting controls manufacturer's are somehow getting to the code representatives and pushing all these changes. Again, these changes piss me off because a lot of them just promote bad design in my opinion.

 

[tortuga]

While I can sympathize with your frustration I would push back on this one:

3) I think that the IECC sometimes even conflicts with life safety issues. There was a dental office I was working on where we had a surgery room and the authority having jurisdiction forced me to put occupancy sensors in the surgery room.

The 2021 (and earlier) IECC does not require occupancy sensors in a surgery room. I would ask the AHJ to cite the section in the code.
see C405.2.1

 

[PE (always learning)]

While I can sympathize with your frustration I would push back on this one:

The 2021 (and earlier) IECC does not require occupancy sensors in a surgery room. I would ask the AHJ to cite the section in the code.
see C405.2.1

They through some, pardon my French, bullshit back at me, I tried to push this one so hard, I wish I could find the email, it was a while ago. The IECC has always been bad in my opinion, but I think it's just gotten even worse with the 2021 version.

Especially with the occupancy sensors for plug loads. It's just forcing me to put more receptacles in every office...

 

[tortuga]

They through some, pardon my French, bullshit back at me, I tried to push this one so hard, I wish I could find the email, it was a while ago.

Now that's frustrating, I have appealed up the chain of command in situations like that but takes up valuable time.

 

[PE (always learning)]

Now that's frustrating, I have appealed up the chain of command in situations like that but takes up valuable time.

Agreed, it was a complete time sink that was unnecessary in the first place. Sometimes, I wonder about the intelligence of these inspectors or if they even have any real common sense or knowledge of design to begin with. It feels like they just want to make sure their checklist is good.