The buddy system

[markessox65]

I was wondering if an electrician can work alone in an electrical 480v bucket, if the bucket disconnect is shut off locked out, but the power is still feeding the top of the bucket dicconect (inside). The disconnect for the bucket would be off but the top would be hot.

 

[electricalperson]

im not sure on the official osha rules on this but i think if someone is working in ANYTHING live they should have a helper or another electrician in the same room with them just incase you get hung up in it.

 

[zog]

There is no such OSHA requirement for any work less than 600V, OSHA has 2 worker requirements for >600 jobs of a sepcific nature in 1910.269

The REAL question is can an electrician work PERIOD in the situation you described, the answer is no unless you meet the specific requirements of NFPA 70E section 130 for justification and if you do you still need an EEWP. (I am assuming the work is performed withing 3'6" of live 480V parts.)

Is having a buddy a good idea, sure it is, I know 2 people that would probally be alive today if they had someone there with them.

 

[wireman71]

One buddy is good. More than one electrician and I'd rather work alone : )

 

[cadpoint]

One buddy is good. More than one electrician and I'd rather work alone : )

What a big ego in a small place? Come on Brother.

I'd rather be with an electrician, the more white hair the better, the labor can do other things ...

Zog, I frankly thought that OSHA required a more stringent requirement of
electrical work as a paired requirement, and no solo hot work period. Frankly I thought it was even a tool box talk!

 

[zog]

What a big ego in a small place? Come on Brother.

I'd rather be with an electrician, the more white hair the better, the labor can do other things ...

Zog, I frankly thought that OSHA required a more stringent requirement of
electrical work as a paired requirement, and no solo hot work period. Frankly I thought it was even a tool box talk!

Nope, common misconception. The rule is no hot work, with a few exceptions, but people still do hot work all the time.

Here is the only thing you will find in any OSHA standard about a two person requirement.

1910.269(l)(1)(i) Except as provided in paragraph (l)(1)(ii) of this section, at least two employees shall be present while the following types of work are being performed:

(l)(1)(i)(A) Installation, removal, or repair of lines that are energized at more than 600 volts,

(l)(1)(i)(B) Installation, removal, or repair of deenergized lines if an employee is exposed to
contact with other parts energized at more than 600 volts,

(l)(1)(i)(C) Installation, removal, or repair of equipment, such as transformers, capacitors,
and regulators, if an employee is exposed to contact with parts energized at more
than 600 volts,

(l)(1)(i)(D) Work involving the use of mechanical equipment, other than insulated aerial lifts, near parts energized at more than 600 volts, and

(l)(1)(i)(E) Other work that exposes an employee to electrical hazards greater than or equal to those posed by operations that are specifically listed in paragraphs (l)(1)(i)(A) through (l)(1)(i)(D) of this section.

(l)(1)(ii) Paragraph (l)(1)(i) of this section does not apply to the following operations:

(l)(1)(ii)(A) Routine switching of circuits, if the employer can demonstrate that conditions at the site allow this work to be performed safely,

(l)(1)(ii)(B) Work performed with live-line tools if the employee is positioned so that he or she is neither within reach of nor otherwise exposed to contact with energized parts,
and

(l)(1)(ii)(C) Emergency repairs to the extent necessary to safeguard the general public.

 

[cadpoint]

Thank You, I'll make it into a tool box talk for my co-workers...

 

[frizbeedog]

Thank You, I'll make it into a tool box talk for my co-workers...

Tool box talk?

New term for me, can you share?

 

[cadpoint]

At work mostly larger jobs, around here... and even some small jobs, above 30+ people usually the GC or individual company's will have prepared or purchased flyers on various themes on Safety, mostly read or presented on Monday's morning or after lunch. Anything from fall protection to proper attire, usually talking about anything that might and has happened on Job-sites. Announcements by trades are also stated on upcoming events that might be of concerns to others and there work schedule, closed hall for painting, Etc, that might upset others safety or work schedule, But really to announce hey Crew this is going to happen this week pay attention!

My present Job site has over 250K man hours with no recorded accidents, that includes all onsite main and sub contractors.

Safe is everyones concern, and its stressed alot. With Safety, there is no short cut.

 

[cornbread]

Electrically safe work Condition. A state in which the conductor or circuit part to be worked on or near has been disconnected form energized parts, locked/tagged in accordance with established standards, tested to ensure the absence of voltage, and grounded if determined necessary.

NFPA 103.1 (A) (1)
Energized Electrical Work permit: Required if the live parts are not placed in an electrcial safe work condition

 

[zog]

Thank You, I'll make it into a tool box talk for my co-workers...

Actually I wouldnt, it is best if they have been trained to use the buddy system to continue to use it IF they are doing live work (Which they shouldnt be). Instead do a tool box talk on what is considered live work and when a EEWP is required.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

The REAL question is can an electrician work PERIOD in the situation you described, the answer is no unless you meet the specific requirements of NFPA 70E section 130 for justification and if you do you still need an EEWP. (I am assuming the work is performed withing 3'6" of live 480V parts.)

Zog,
If the manufacturer of the MCC bucket would provide an inner enclosure over the line side terminals that provides the same protection as the main door, would you then be permitted to work on the bucket with the line side still energized?

 

[zog]

Zog,
If the manufacturer of the MCC bucket would provide an inner enclosure over the line side terminals that provides the same protection as the main door, would you then be permitted to work on the bucket with the line side still energized?

Good question, tough answer. Short answer is yes, and some OEM's are doing that now. However the Arc Flash PPE requirements still apply because they are in effect with live parts exposed or not exposed.

I know the 70E committe has discussed addressing this issue and it will take a tweaking of the definitions and the OEM's doing some testing on the abaility of the covers to contain the arc flash, but the cover removes the shock hazard and the requirement for an EEWP because the definition of Live Work refers to Exposed Live Parts.

Make sense?