thermal imaging

[billsnuff]

i could use some advise concerning thermal imaging. this is a 100M sq ft facility with 20 LP, 20 buckets and 60 buss plugs.

new plant mgr would like to do this in house. have had four studies done in the past by others. fuse size up to 400A with main at 1200A. with the exception of MDP, all other points will be HRC 2 or less with most at HRC 0.

what type of technology (camera, software)

what type of cost range

what is the learning curve

 

[480sparky]

Brain John, your phone is ringing!

 

[brian john]

I am not trying to be sarcastic or a job protectionist. BUT in house IR's are generally like giving yourself an in house medical physical, yeah you did all the right stuff but what does it all mean.

And what I truly believe is maintenance money could be better spent than on an IR camera used once a year generally improperly used.


Type of camera Fluke or Flir

2500-10,000 my last camera cost 32,000.00. Plus proper PPE equipment

With classes (minimum level I and II) and REGULAR USE a couple of 4 weeks of daily shooting.

DO NOT TAKE CLASSES FROM THE COMPANY SELLING THE CAMERA.

 

[charlietuna]

Tell him to forget an "in house" ATTEMPT to thermal image his facility. If he's smart he'll communicate with surrounding building managers and find a contractor with a proven track record.

 

[zog]

I agree with the others, farm it out to a certified thermographer, not some yahoo witha camera that took a free class. Ask iwire about certification, last I heard from him he was in the midst of his certification classes. Hope he survived.

 

[brian john]

I agree with the others, farm it out to a certified thermographer, not some yahoo witha camera that took a free class. Ask iwire about certification, last I heard from him he was in the midst of his certification classes. Hope he survived.

I have no doubt anything he tries he succeeds at. Just seems to be in his personality. (NOT A SLAM JUUST AN OBSERVATION)

 

[zog]

I have no doubt anything he tries he succeeds at. Just seems to be in his personality. (NOT A SLAM JUUST AN OBSERVATION)

Yep, too stubborn to fail

 

[billsnuff]

Thanks all, the replys are about what I expected, that is about the same as my initial reation.

Like Winston Churchhill said "opportunity in every disaster", I'm looking for the opportunity.

Can someone 'splain more about the training? Like who, where, when, how long. I'm in Iowa, tween Dubuque and Davenport

 

[brian john]

http://www.infraspection.com/courses_distance_learning_general.html

 

[weressl]

I am not trying to be sarcastic or a job protectionist. BUT in house IR's are generally like giving yourself an in house medical physical, yeah you did all the right stuff but what does it all mean.

And what I truly believe is maintenance money could be better spent than on an IR camera used once a year generally improperly used.


Type of camera Fluke or Flir

2500-10,000 my last camera cost 32,000.00. Plus proper PPE equipment

With classes (minimum level I and II) and REGULAR USE a couple of 4 weeks of daily shooting.

DO NOT TAKE CLASSES FROM THE COMPANY SELLING THE CAMERA.

I have to take exception to this.

Even though we own one of those $30K cameras I find that when it is used only for identifying electrical hot spots their capabilities are vastly underutilized.

Simpler equipment in the hand of an electrician will identify the same problem that eventually requires mechanical analysis and repair of the problem.

The complete and accurate temperature profile has more use in a developmental laboratory than in simple troubleshooting and PDm work.

 

[brian john]

Well you are wrong

I have to take exception to this.

Even though we own one of those $30K cameras I find that when it is used only for identifying electrical hot spots their capabilities are vastly underutilized.[/qute]

Most likely because they do not know what they are doing.

The complete and accurate temperature profile has more use in a developmental laboratory than in simple troubleshooting and PDm work.

And once again this is because the most likely have no clue, expensive toy in the hands of untrained people?

. When a IR camera is utilized by a trained technician and the reports are properly interpreted, the results can determine if a 200 and CB with 40% load has issues. Something a man with no training with a camera can do. We see numerous reports every year where items are identified as having a thermal issue, not because there are problems but the user can not realize a 20 amp CB carrying 16 amps is going to look hot compared to a 20 amp CB with no load.

Like anything an electrician can do your job, BUT can he do it adequately? NO, I am sure many try and feel they do as good a job as you BUY DO THEY REALLY?

 

[weressl]

Well you are wrong

Most likely because they do not know what they are doing.

Oh, no they do they job admirably with great results.

And once again this is because the most likely have no clue, expensive toy in the hands of untrained people?

. When a IR camera is utilized by a trained technician and the reports are properly interpreted, the results can determine if a 200 and CB with 40% load has issues. Something a man with no training with a camera can do. We see numerous reports every year where items are identified as having a thermal issue, not because there are problems but the user can not realize a 20 amp CB carrying 16 amps is going to look hot compared to a 20 amp CB with no load.

ANY electrical temperature measurement WITHOUT the current reading is meaningless.

Like anything an electrician can do your job, BUT can he do it adequately? NO, I am sure many try and feel they do as good a job as you BUY DO THEY REALLY?

Absolutely, they have level II training.

As I pointed out the $30K instrument is overdone for these applications.

I was wondering how much time will it take to you to respond. Not much. Still no objectivity.

We just have to agree to disagree. After all it's my money, not yours.:roll:

 

[charlietuna]

I totally agree with John Brian and being in the Infrared business since 1989 i can understand John's feelings. Quality and qualified infrared contractors are far and few between. And i always felt what an injustice these unqualified people where doing and usually charging more for their services than my company. Most of their reports suggested repairs of components that were functioning as designed, while miss obvious and sometings serious issues. It has always been my opinion that electrical infrared scanning must balance generated heat along with a component's load ! Too many scanners have no electrical knowledge and no means to determine a systems percent load. They only know something is "HOT"! An example is one new customer, a sizable hospital complex hired us to scan their facility. Upon the completion they showed us three years of testing reports from another infrared contractor. OVER 50 percent of the problems were bogus! Things like overload elements on 1000 ton chillers or contacts on large ATS switches. Overload elements are designed to be "HOT" and a 400 amp transfer switch operating at 80 percent load is going to show heat. This hospital had spent many thousands of dollars replacing overloads and contacts un-necessarily! An electrician(i always used two) has the natural ability to balance load vs heat, but it takes training in the field that makes the difference, moreso than in a classroom. You learn the areas where problems are more apt to occur, and you spend some extra time in those areas, and also concentrate on a building's systems and devote more time on areas that will shut that facility down. We never advertised these services but provided them to our customers in commercial office buildings, but branched out into other fields by their requests. The idea to scan a facility without qualified camera and operators will, in my opinion, be counter productive.