pgrovetom1
New User
- Location
- Sonoma California
- Occupation
- Telecom System Engineer
I'm struggling with problems from Tesla with the their design and installation of 3 Power Walls into my existing 15KW solar configuration. They want o charge me a surprise $4800 on top of an existing $5300 installation contract. Its crazy. They had photos, model numbers and all the details of my existing PG&E service installation. I asked for a site visit which was scheduled but on that day nobody came and they stood me up. My PG&E 200A Square D main service panel is located on a 4x6 post on a large concrete pad about 50 feet from my home with underground grid service wires. All the loads have breakers in this main service panel along with PG&E meter and a 200A main breaker. I have 2 solar systems. One is 10 years old and consists of 2 Sunny Boy 7000 US inverters each with about 5500W of actual power. A newer system is based on Enphase micro-inverters and is about 4000W of actual AC power. The 2 Sunny Boy inverters combined power is line side tapped into the Square D panel and the Enphase system is back-fed into a 30A breaker in the main panel.
The 3 Tesla Power Walls are sized to backup my home for an entire day of typical power use which can be recharged by the solar even in the winter as long as their is reasonable sun. Each Power Wall has about 13.5KWh or about 40KWh total of backup power. I'm located in Sonoma County CA and in the fire area where PG&E shuts off the grid when there is a fire risk. The Power Walls will allow me to time shift my solar power when selling to the grid and backup my home during most power outages.
Tesla did a 3 Power Wall design and the purchase and installation contract had $5300 for the complete install. This included rewiring all my existing home loads over to an equipment wall I built where the new equipment is located about 2 feet from my existing 4x6 post on a concrete pad. The 3 Power Walls, their Gateway ( computer controller and grid disconnect switch ), 3 new 200A panels for solar/PW, backed-up and non-backed-up loads. I have a well pump and a 50A pool circuit that will not be backed up.
This means the installation contract for $5300 involved connecting my existing Square D main panels 200A circuit over to their Gateway via about 10 feet of conduit to the new equipment wall. It also involves cutting into the conduits bringing my solar, home and other circuit conduits up the 4x6 into the the Square D panel. All the breakers will now be located in 2 new 200A panels ( a backed up and non-backed up ) installed near the Gateway on the equipment wall. A splice box would be mounted on the 4x6 post below the Square D panel where the conduits with all my circuits have been intercepted, cut and spliced to be re-routed. This will allow all my existing circuits to be spliced and routed back down the 4x6 over to the respective backed up or non backed up 200A panel.
This means my existing main panel will be relegated to either a meter only or meter plus 200A main disconnect with no service breakers configuration. Tesla would not share their circuit diagrams with me so I had no idea how all this would be wired. I had spoken with the actual designer who described it all to me. My understanding was they would use a 200A feed through lug in my existing panel for the 200A circuit to their Gateway. This is how a 200A sub-panel is tied into the main panel now. That would be removed. My description of how all my home and solar circuits would be re-routed to to my new equipment wall is from my imagination given its the only practical method. I hope my description is adequate.
So a few weeks ago, Tesla came to my home with one electrician and 2 helpers. They had scheduled one day. Upon arriving and seeing the complexity of my situation, they said this is not a one day job. I agreed and was surprised at the scheduling. I wasn't really surprised as I had pleaded with Tesla to come do a site visit and review the installation issues especially splicing and re-routing all my home wiring, the 200A feed and the size of the new equipment wall. I just couldn't get Tesla to understand that a site visit and reviewing these things is important. They scheduled a site visit but stood me up and never came. So the installation team showed up and as expected were surprised at Tesla's lack of preparation. So they looked at things and just started installing boxes on the new equipment wall. The equipment wall I built is two 4x6 PT posts set in 3 feet holes with concrete with 8 foot long 2x12 PT boards attached to the posts making an 8 foot tall by 8 foot wide wall. When I saw all the equipment they needed to install, I suggested I increase the wall with to 10 feet wide quickly before they begin mounting. They said it would work at 8x8 and just installed everything. They stopped work after installing all the equipment including the 3 Power walls and left.
Then I got a call a week later saying one of their electricians had some time and could he come finish the job. I explained this was more than an afternoon job but sure come on over. When the new electrician arrived, he looked at things and seemed stunned. He said this wasn't going to work and said my existing Square D panel would need to be removed and replaced and after standing there a few hours making a plan said Telsa would call me. They didn't call but rather sent me an invoice for another $4800 to replace my existing 200A panel with another. I was a bit shocked that they didn't speak with me and just upped the $5300 contract by $4800 to $10,100 due to their incompetence.
So removing my panel and replacing it involves disconnecting the underground PG&E main wires and involves PG&E assistance. What does PG&E charge for this involvement? The new meter panel without breakers is at most $500 and I suspect Tesla pays their team about $150 an hour. How can it cost $4800 when we have a contract and they did not do the site visit I asked for and said photos were adequate. Its makes no sense. I nearly begged them to do a site visit and to consider the very issues that led their electrician to say they needed to replace my panel. Now I have to get Tesla to cover this or charge me a reasonable amount. Its ridiculous. I've has 3 Tesla customer contact people and the second was fired and they dropped me and I had to reach out and find someone to help.
I suggested they just convert my Square D panel to either a meter only or meter plus main 200A disconnect. If they convert my panel to a meter only, they could use the existing 200A lugs on the back of the meter to route the 200A service to their Gateway on the equipment wall ( 10 feet away) or to a new 200A disconnect only co-located and mounted a few inches away to the left of the existing main panel. This avoids PG&E involvement. Or they could use 200A Feed Through lugs in my panel and reuse its meter and 200A main disconnect. One of these approaches which reuse my main panel as a meter only or meter plus disconnect avoids disconnecting the underground PG&E wiring involved in a full panel change out. Are there any code issues with converting my panel to a meter only and using its existing lugs to wire to a co-located new main disconnect or to the Gateway and use its disconnect. Tesla's installation manual shows how to wire this meter only configuration on page 57 of 91. The link is below.
I hope I explained the background and situation sufficiently for someone code knowledgeable to help me with a code compliant method of down converting my Square D main panel to a meter only configuration and properly wiring to either a new nearby main disconnect or 10 feet away Gateway which has a 200A disconnect in it. Both of these fit the Tesla installation manual methods but I don't know if changing my panel to a simpler configuration such as meter has any code issues.
My home has a 200A panel inside my home and its connected to this main panel underground to feed through lugs in my panel. These 200A feed through lugs must be removed since this wiring must be intercepted and spliced over to the equipment wall. This means these existing lugs are no longer used. The Tesla designer I spoke with told me this was the method he was using to get the 200A main circuit over to the Gateway. But the second electrician said he couldn't do this which is what triggered all these issues. He did not tell me why. He did not seem to consider using my panel as a meter only but just jumped to replacing the whole panel. Does replacing a 200A panel with breakers to one with only a meter and main disconnect cost $4800? As I said before, its less than $1000 for both the new panel plus labor. But it does involve PG&E since the hot PG&E grid wires must be disconnected and reconnected. Does PG&E need to disconnect the power at the pole before changing the panel?
Any help with ideas for how to do this legally while re-using my existing panel would be greatly appreciated.
The 3 Tesla Power Walls are sized to backup my home for an entire day of typical power use which can be recharged by the solar even in the winter as long as their is reasonable sun. Each Power Wall has about 13.5KWh or about 40KWh total of backup power. I'm located in Sonoma County CA and in the fire area where PG&E shuts off the grid when there is a fire risk. The Power Walls will allow me to time shift my solar power when selling to the grid and backup my home during most power outages.
Tesla did a 3 Power Wall design and the purchase and installation contract had $5300 for the complete install. This included rewiring all my existing home loads over to an equipment wall I built where the new equipment is located about 2 feet from my existing 4x6 post on a concrete pad. The 3 Power Walls, their Gateway ( computer controller and grid disconnect switch ), 3 new 200A panels for solar/PW, backed-up and non-backed-up loads. I have a well pump and a 50A pool circuit that will not be backed up.
This means the installation contract for $5300 involved connecting my existing Square D main panels 200A circuit over to their Gateway via about 10 feet of conduit to the new equipment wall. It also involves cutting into the conduits bringing my solar, home and other circuit conduits up the 4x6 into the the Square D panel. All the breakers will now be located in 2 new 200A panels ( a backed up and non-backed up ) installed near the Gateway on the equipment wall. A splice box would be mounted on the 4x6 post below the Square D panel where the conduits with all my circuits have been intercepted, cut and spliced to be re-routed. This will allow all my existing circuits to be spliced and routed back down the 4x6 over to the respective backed up or non backed up 200A panel.
This means my existing main panel will be relegated to either a meter only or meter plus 200A main disconnect with no service breakers configuration. Tesla would not share their circuit diagrams with me so I had no idea how all this would be wired. I had spoken with the actual designer who described it all to me. My understanding was they would use a 200A feed through lug in my existing panel for the 200A circuit to their Gateway. This is how a 200A sub-panel is tied into the main panel now. That would be removed. My description of how all my home and solar circuits would be re-routed to to my new equipment wall is from my imagination given its the only practical method. I hope my description is adequate.
So a few weeks ago, Tesla came to my home with one electrician and 2 helpers. They had scheduled one day. Upon arriving and seeing the complexity of my situation, they said this is not a one day job. I agreed and was surprised at the scheduling. I wasn't really surprised as I had pleaded with Tesla to come do a site visit and review the installation issues especially splicing and re-routing all my home wiring, the 200A feed and the size of the new equipment wall. I just couldn't get Tesla to understand that a site visit and reviewing these things is important. They scheduled a site visit but stood me up and never came. So the installation team showed up and as expected were surprised at Tesla's lack of preparation. So they looked at things and just started installing boxes on the new equipment wall. The equipment wall I built is two 4x6 PT posts set in 3 feet holes with concrete with 8 foot long 2x12 PT boards attached to the posts making an 8 foot tall by 8 foot wide wall. When I saw all the equipment they needed to install, I suggested I increase the wall with to 10 feet wide quickly before they begin mounting. They said it would work at 8x8 and just installed everything. They stopped work after installing all the equipment including the 3 Power walls and left.
Then I got a call a week later saying one of their electricians had some time and could he come finish the job. I explained this was more than an afternoon job but sure come on over. When the new electrician arrived, he looked at things and seemed stunned. He said this wasn't going to work and said my existing Square D panel would need to be removed and replaced and after standing there a few hours making a plan said Telsa would call me. They didn't call but rather sent me an invoice for another $4800 to replace my existing 200A panel with another. I was a bit shocked that they didn't speak with me and just upped the $5300 contract by $4800 to $10,100 due to their incompetence.
So removing my panel and replacing it involves disconnecting the underground PG&E main wires and involves PG&E assistance. What does PG&E charge for this involvement? The new meter panel without breakers is at most $500 and I suspect Tesla pays their team about $150 an hour. How can it cost $4800 when we have a contract and they did not do the site visit I asked for and said photos were adequate. Its makes no sense. I nearly begged them to do a site visit and to consider the very issues that led their electrician to say they needed to replace my panel. Now I have to get Tesla to cover this or charge me a reasonable amount. Its ridiculous. I've has 3 Tesla customer contact people and the second was fired and they dropped me and I had to reach out and find someone to help.
I suggested they just convert my Square D panel to either a meter only or meter plus main 200A disconnect. If they convert my panel to a meter only, they could use the existing 200A lugs on the back of the meter to route the 200A service to their Gateway on the equipment wall ( 10 feet away) or to a new 200A disconnect only co-located and mounted a few inches away to the left of the existing main panel. This avoids PG&E involvement. Or they could use 200A Feed Through lugs in my panel and reuse its meter and 200A main disconnect. One of these approaches which reuse my main panel as a meter only or meter plus disconnect avoids disconnecting the underground PG&E wiring involved in a full panel change out. Are there any code issues with converting my panel to a meter only and using its existing lugs to wire to a co-located new main disconnect or to the Gateway and use its disconnect. Tesla's installation manual shows how to wire this meter only configuration on page 57 of 91. The link is below.
I hope I explained the background and situation sufficiently for someone code knowledgeable to help me with a code compliant method of down converting my Square D main panel to a meter only configuration and properly wiring to either a new nearby main disconnect or 10 feet away Gateway which has a 200A disconnect in it. Both of these fit the Tesla installation manual methods but I don't know if changing my panel to a simpler configuration such as meter has any code issues.
My home has a 200A panel inside my home and its connected to this main panel underground to feed through lugs in my panel. These 200A feed through lugs must be removed since this wiring must be intercepted and spliced over to the equipment wall. This means these existing lugs are no longer used. The Tesla designer I spoke with told me this was the method he was using to get the 200A main circuit over to the Gateway. But the second electrician said he couldn't do this which is what triggered all these issues. He did not tell me why. He did not seem to consider using my panel as a meter only but just jumped to replacing the whole panel. Does replacing a 200A panel with breakers to one with only a meter and main disconnect cost $4800? As I said before, its less than $1000 for both the new panel plus labor. But it does involve PG&E since the hot PG&E grid wires must be disconnected and reconnected. Does PG&E need to disconnect the power at the pole before changing the panel?
Any help with ideas for how to do this legally while re-using my existing panel would be greatly appreciated.
