Tick tracer work?

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Steve McKinney

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Hey Gents,

I've heard of it but never done it, on a dead circuit(ungrounded conductor with no voltage in reference to ground), can I use a tick tracer like the phone fellers use?

Any preferences? What if I find the loose connection and the conductor is re-energized, will it "smoke" the tracer?

Thanx 4 your time and Happy 4th!

Steve McKinney
 
Steve McKinney said:
Hey Gents,

I've heard of it but never done it, on a dead circuit(ungrounded conductor with no voltage in reference to ground), can I use a tick tracer like the phone fellers use?

Any preferences? What if I find the loose connection and the conductor is re-energized, will it "smoke" the tracer?

Thanx 4 your time and Happy 4th!

Steve McKinney
Click to expand...

Yes.
World's Best
Yes.
You too!
 
Steve McKinney said:
I've heard of it but never done it, on a dead circuit(ungrounded conductor with no voltage in reference to ground), can I use a tick tracer like the phone fellers use?
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Yes, that is a common troubleshooting technique.

Steve McKinney said:
Any preferences? What if I find the loose connection and the conductor is re-energized, will it "smoke" the tracer?
Click to expand...
Yes, you will smoke your tracer if you do that. I have two now, one was smoked, but I fixed it. One is Fox and Hound brand, and the other is Tempo. Both pretty much the same.
 
mdshunk said:
480Sparky is referring to the German made Kerth toner and probe Mike Sandman sells as the "world's best toner and probe".
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Interesting, that looks just like the Harris one that I've used from time to time. Harris must have done a "label slap" on it.
 
peter d said:
Interesting, that looks just like the Harris one that I've used from time to time. Harris must have done a "label slap" on it.
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Like Greenlee, I've come to suspect that Harris makes very little of their own stuff. Just private brand labeled other people's stuff. I don't know this for a fact, but it seems like a safe bet. Check out the Kurth catalog, and you'll see other stuff you'll recognize.... http://www.ibexsystems.com/pdf/Kurth%20Electronic%20Product%20Overview%20October%202007%20IBEX.pdf

or, their German site, which has more stuff: http://www.kurthelectronic.com/html/kabel-_und_adernsuche.html

EDIT>... I see their German site says all their toners are overvoltage protected. That's pretty nice. That would be the one to have, for an electrician.
 
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mdshunk said:
I see their German site says all their toners are overvoltage protected. That's pretty nice. That would be the one to have, for an electrician.
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No .... I have never used a toner to locate a circuit in a panel only to immediately turn it on. DOH! :mad: :grin:
 
iwire said:
No .... I have never used a toner to locate a circuit in a panel only to immediately turn it on. DOH! :mad: :grin:
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Don't bother turning it on... just hook it up to that energized, wirenutted conductor hanging there in the panel.....:grin:
 
iwire said:
No .... I have never used a toner to locate a circuit in a panel only to immediately turn it on. DOH! :mad: :grin:
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Neither do it, but let me tell you how I zapped mine. Partially dead circuit. Put a tone on the dead part, and started tracing it backwards with the probe. I got a tone on a bundle of NM cables in the basement, and started manipulating them apart a bit to see which exact cable it was. I was near enough to a junction box with the loose connection that I made the connection good just by mussing with the cable a bit.
 
mdshunk said:
I was near enough to a junction box with the loose connection that I made the connection good just by mussing with the cable a bit.
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Too bad that doesn't work for every intermittent troubleshoot, eh? ;)
 
mdshunk said:
Yes, you will smoke your tracer if you do that. I have two now, one was smoked..
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My Gardner Bender tone set came as a kit on eBay for US $35. The seller was liquidating a large lot of these kits about 2 years ago, which included a separate DVM, wire tracker, network, cable transmitter,& pick up GET-4100R.

Found out this week how lucky that purchase was, after I flipped on a breaker circuit being toned. The transmitter's two leads were connected to a hot & neutral at 120vac 60Hz, for about 1 minute, before I found the mistake and removed it.

The CAUTION on back of this unit clearly states "DO NOT USE ON VOLTAGE OVER 60 VOLTS AC/DC", but luckily it still works fine. (I keep promising myself to try hot & green next time) These kind of mistakes happen enough to result in lots of make-up experience with rubber gloves.

People think I know what I'm doing with all the fancy tones, Salisbury gloves & leather protectors, but the truth is I can't remember what I'm doing, and the gloves let me keep trying until I get it right.
 
I use a Harris toner all the time to trace a DEAD circuit. You can turn a breaker off, hook up the toner in the panel and follow the wires around in the walls, boxes etc. If in a box to verify continuity press the receiver, then listen for the tone to drop sharply as you short the wires.

If working back to the power panel on a dead citcuit, don't disturbe any connections because if you "fix" a bad connection, you may fry your toner.
 
I'm still figuring out these tone sets. Mine generates a tone with very low resistance on the circuit. When isolating a circuit B4 a megger check, the tone is less reliable than continuity checks.
 
Thanx for all of the responses guys. I really appreciate it. Got an open somewhere "downstream". Never had used one but I can sure see the possibilities.....and probabilities. If you only tie it to the ungrounded conductor, in other words, no circuit.............it is not like the signal generators we "plug in to a receptacle" to id the breaker? 120 in reference to ground will damage?

what about tying to the grounded conductor(neutral). Do you pick up all the neutrals in the neighborhood?

Just bought it.....................would like to have it for a while.

'preciate it,

Steve
 
Steve, a toner might send out a useable signal if only tied to the ungrounded conductor but you give up the very valuable benefit of listening to the tone while shorting the pair together and hearing the tone level drop way down.

This is especially valuable if you need to keep the grounded and ungrounded pairs separated, like in a AFCI or multiwire branch circuit. In those cases, don't connect to the neutral bar but lift the white wire off and connect one of the toner wires to it. The other toner wire of course goes to the ungrounded conductor.
 
Steve McKinney said:
what about tying to the grounded conductor (neutral). Do you pick up all the neutrals in the neighborhood
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Tying a tone & probe to Hot & EGC (if available) provides a cleaner signal, but either way shorting Hot to any outlet ground/ing should interrupt tone, unless some resistance exists. I found my tone set sounding on closed circuits with an attached Wall Wart, 20 ohms of resistance; it may go even lower.

My tone & probe ID's dead shorts with silence, but treats most resistance & open circuits with the same tone. This tone is great for sorting out wires, but start with a separate meter, Megger, or your tone set's continuity function (usually an LED) to look for open circuits. A megaOhm meter / insulation tester is best for verifying open circuits on de-energized systems.
 
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