Tight fit for a 42 slot panel

[FrancisDoody]

Medium side house with very limited space where the new panel will replace a aging 100 amp 24 slot panel. The load calculations require a 200 amp service. Just don't have the vertical wall space for a 42 slot installation. Solution looks like installing two (2) 100 amp main breaker 24 slot panels and feeding them with #4 THNN through a common conduit directly from the 200 amp meter socket. Installing 2 #4's under the pressure clamp of the meter socket. Any thoughts?
Thanks

 

[quinn77]

first, two conductors under any lug must be listed for that. why not set 200amp main from meter, then feed a gutter, which feeds 2 100amp main lug loadcenters.

 

[FrancisDoody]

When I went for the price of a meter/main it came back at $611.00 Big bucks

 

[augie47]

See a couple of problems. First, what quinn77 states, most 200 amp meter socket lugs are not rated for 2 conductors, secondly, here, since you have two service panels the supply to one panel would not serve the "whole house" and a #4 would fall back to it's 310.15 rating which at 75? would be 85 amps.
also you need a better supplier $ 611 is way overpriced

 

[satcom]

When I went for the price of a meter/main it came back at $611.00 Big bucks

I have a bridge for sale!
$61 would be high for a 200a meter socket
Try using a 20 or 30 space 200a loadcenter and add a 22 space 100a subpanel

 

[wireguy8169]

I have a bridge for sale!
$61 would be high for a 200a meter socket
Try using a 20 or 30 space 200a loadcenter and add a 22 space 100a subpanel

Beat me to the post but that is what I would do if possible.Plus it leaves you a bit more room for more circuits if you find any that may be overloaded or just want to add some (if not over loading of course)

 

[infinity]

Try using a 20 or 30 space 200a loadcenter and add a 22 space 100a subpanel

Much better Idea. The original installation is full of problems. The conductor size being one of them as Augie mentioned. If you have more than 3CCC's in that raceway you'll have derating issues. The two conductors under one lug in the meter enclosure is a potential issue. Also if you don't have enough vertical clearance for one 200 amp, 40 circuit panel how will you have the required dedicated space for the two panels?

 

[electricmanscott]

Try a 30/40 panel.

 

[ceb58]

Also if you don't have enough vertical clearance for one 200 amp, 40 circuit panel how will you have the required dedicated space for the two panels?

That's my question also. What is the issue with the vertical clearance? This is where a pic. would be helpful

 

[infinity]

That's my question also. What is the issue with the vertical clearance? This is where a pic. would be helpful

The panel would require a dedicated space which is equal the footprint if the panel from the floor to 6' above the top of the panel or ceiling whichever is less. If you don't have the vertical clearance for one 40 circuit panel how can you have it for two panels?

Here's a graphic from the NECH:

 

[cadpoint]

Address the issues as stated or build out the wall, double stack or make a perpendicular wall!

 

[K8MHZ]

The panel would require a dedicated space which is equal the footprint if the panel from the floor to 6' above the top of the panel or ceiling whichever is less. If you don't have the vertical clearance for one 40 circuit panel how can you have it for two panels?

Here's a graphic from the NECH:

I was told that the dedicated space did not go above a suspended ceiling, the graphic shows that it does.

 

[infinity]

I was told that the dedicated space did not go above a suspended ceiling, the graphic shows that it does.

Here's the 2008 NEC wording regarding dedicated space::

110.26(F) Dedicated Equipment Space. All switchboards, panelboards, distribution boards, and motor control centers shall be located in dedicated spaces and protected from damage.
Exception: Control equipment that by its very nature or because of other rules of the Code must be adjacent to or within sight of its operating machinery shall be permitted in those locations.
(1) Indoor. Indoor installations shall comply with 110.26(F)(1)(a) through (F)(1)(d).
(a) Dedicated Electrical Space. The space equal to the width and depth of the equipment and extending from the floor to a height of 1.8 m (6 ft) above the equipment or to the structural ceiling, whichever is lower, shall be dedicated to the electrical installation. No piping, ducts, leak protection apparatus, or other equipment foreign to the electrical installation shall be located in this zone.
Exception: Suspended ceilings with removable panels shall be permitted within the 1.8-m (6-ft) zone.
(b) Foreign Systems. The area above the dedicated space required by 110.26(F)(1)(a) shall be permitted to contain foreign systems, provided protection is installed to avoid damage to the electrical equipment from condensation, leaks, or breaks in such foreign systems.
(c) Sprinkler Protection. Sprinkler protection shall be permitted for the dedicated space where the piping complies with this section.
(d) Suspended Ceilings. A dropped, suspended, or similar ceiling that does not add strength to the building structure shall not be considered a structural ceiling.

 

[goldstar]

Not sure if you're permitted to use this type meter enclosure in your area but it might be the answer to part of your problem.

http://www.milbankmfg.com/products/Catalogs/CatalogFiles/PDF/5168.pdf

 

[satcom]

Not sure if you're permitted to use this type meter enclosure in your area but it might be the answer to part of your problem.

http://www.milbankmfg.com/products/Catalogs/CatalogFiles/PDF/5168.pdf

Area would not be a concern they are an approved loadcenter, we see the problem he is having often and 2 smaller side by side boxes one the main load center and the other a sub panel usually works well

 

[goldstar]

Area would not be a concern they are an approved loadcenter, we see the problem he is having often and 2 smaller side by side boxes one the main load center and the other a sub panel usually works well

My understanding was that the OP could not fit a 200 amp main breaker panel (vertically) and wanted to use two 100 amp, 24 circuit main breaker panels side by side. If he were able to use one of the meter enclosures I cited he could install two 100 amp breakers in that enclosure and use 2 main lug panels side by side inside the house. Am I misunderstanding what the problem was ?

 

[iwire]

Area would not be a concern they are an approved loadcenter,

In many areas the utility will only allow certain meter sockets.

 

[kwired]

I have a bridge for sale!
$61 would be high for a 200a meter socket
Try using a 20 or 30 space 200a loadcenter and add a 22 space 100a subpanel

If you have meter with 200 amp mains for $61 I would like to buy some from you. $600 plus is high though.

 

[kwired]

My understanding was that the OP could not fit a 200 amp main breaker panel (vertically) and wanted to use two 100 amp, 24 circuit main breaker panels side by side. If he were able to use one of the meter enclosures I cited he could install two 100 amp breakers in that enclosure and use 2 main lug panels side by side inside the house. Am I misunderstanding what the problem was ?

If he has room for side by side he could also install a 12 or 20 space 200 amp main breaker panel (they do exist) and sub feed another 100 - 125 amp next to it.

Still would like to know why there is not enough vertical clearance for a 42 circuit panel. It will still have to comply with 110.26(A)(3) which should allow for 2 - 42 circuit panels to be stacked easily.(well at least QO or CH panels would work) He also needs at least 30 inches wide which will also allow them to be side by side easily (for typical 14-1/2 inch wide loadcenters)

In many areas the utility will only allow certain meter sockets.

He could still install load center or disconnects after the meter on exterior of building even if limited to certain meter sockets by POCO.

 

[satcom]

If he has room for side by side he could also install a 12 or 20 space 200 amp main breaker panel (they do exist) and sub feed another 100 - 125 amp next to it.

Still would like to know why there is not enough vertical clearance for a 42 circuit panel. It will still have to comply with 110.26(A)(3) which should allow for 2 - 42 circuit panels to be stacked easily.(well at least QO or CH panels would work) He also needs at least 30 inches wide which will also allow them to be side by side easily (for typical 14-1/2 inch wide loadcenters)


He could still install load center or disconnects after the meter on exterior of building even if limited to certain meter sockets by POCO.

We do a number of the 200A 20space main load centers with 100A 22 space subpanels where the basements are built with inset basement walls in many split level homes, the installation fit the small vertical space.