Time current curves for Obsolete circuit breakers

[Powermeup]

Looking for time current curves for 1966 vintage Federal Pacific circuit breakers. We have been contracted to perform an arc flash study for a client who currently has an old Federal Pacific switchboard. Of course our first recommendation is that they replace this equipment. They are still expecting us to provide an arc flash analysis in the interim. Is there a Thermal Magnetic Molded case breaker that can approximate an FPE.

 

[mayanees]

SKM has what's shown below.
Are you using SKM?
Alternatively, if you have the TCCs for the breaker in question, you can use a similar device and modify accordingly.

 

[Jraef]

FPE techically still exists in Canada. they became Federal Pioneer, then later just Pioneer, now they are owned by Schneider (of Sq. D fame).

But don't forget, arc flash evaluations are based on everything working as designed. Given that FPE has not been around for a long time (in the US), one could argue that you are making an assessment on something that you cannot reasonably assume is still in good working order.

 

[big john]

...But don't forget, arc flash evaluations are based on everything working as designed....

Absolutely. You can't make aby reasonable assertion that half-century-old molded case breakers will interrupt a fault within the time current curve.

I would be very uncomfortable making any arc flash calculations based on that assumption because of the risk it could expose workers to unwittingly.

At the bare minimum that equipment needs to be tested, and given that cost and the condition, it just realistically should be replaced.

 

[topgone]

Absolutely. You can't make aby reasonable assertion that half-century-old molded case breakers will interrupt a fault within the time current curve.

I would be very uncomfortable making any arc flash calculations based on that assumption because of the risk it could expose workers to unwittingly.

At the bare minimum that equipment needs to be tested, and given that cost and the condition, it just realistically should be replaced.

FYI, I had the privilege of tinkering with breakers that age and believe me, majority worked fine per published performance when they first came out in the market!

Like what you said, each of those breakers need to be tested so you will be working on "verified" figures. Dang bloody job, but doable, IMO.

 

[Powermeup]

Thanks for the information. The Engineer who contracted us to do this study is well aware of the uncertainties associated with this equipment. He's expecting a third party recommendation in our report backing up his recommendations as to why this equipment should be replaced. The problem is many non technical people in charge of allocating the money figure if the lights come on and the motors start, the equipment is good, why spend money to replace it.

 

[big john]

FYI, I had the privilege of tinkering with breakers that age and believe me, majority worked fine per published performance when they first came out in the market!

I've been on both sides. I actually tested a number of old, small FPEs trying to find some truth to the "no trip" anecdotes and was surprised they all worked fine.

But I have tested any number of large-frame molded case or air circuit breakers that failed miserably.

 

[peter d]

Looking for time current curves for 1966 vintage Federal Pacific circuit breakers.

Those are timed with a calendar. :lol:

 

[mbrooke]

Looking for time current curves for 1966 vintage Federal Pacific circuit breakers. We have been contracted to perform an arc flash study for a client who currently has an old Federal Pacific switchboard. Of course our first recommendation is that they replace this equipment. They are still expecting us to provide an arc flash analysis in the interim. Is there a Thermal Magnetic Molded case breaker that can approximate an FPE.

Here under FPE and trip curves:


http://www.electricalmanuals.net/

 

[al hildenbrand]

Here under FPE and trip curves:


http://www.electricalmanuals.net/

Nice reference. Thanks.

 

[zog]

Looking for time current curves for 1966 vintage Federal Pacific circuit breakers. We have been contracted to perform an arc flash study for a client who currently has an old Federal Pacific switchboard. Of course our first recommendation is that they replace this equipment.

Based on what? Only FPE issues were with stab lok residential breakers. As long as these are properly maintained and tested they should pose no more concern than any other OEM breakers that age.

They are still expecting us to provide an arc flash analysis in the interim. Is there a Thermal Magnetic Molded case breaker that can approximate an FPE.

Depends on the panel and breaker type but in most cases there are several options for replacement with Westinghouse or GE models. But you often have to get different mounting hardware that sometimes costs more than the breakers do .

 

[GoldDigger]

Depends on the panel and breaker type but in most cases there are several options for replacement with Westinghouse or GE models. But you often have to get different mounting hardware that sometimes costs more than the breakers do .

My impression is that the OP was not looking for a physical replacement but for a current production breaker with a published electronic data file that he could plug into his arc flash analysis software in place of the old FPE breaker.
If the graphical data is available somebody would still have to digitize it for use

 

[mbrooke]

Nice reference. Thanks.

Welcome, and thank you for reminding me