"TING" arc fault device

[junkhound]

Any experience? HO insurance offering for free.

Almost NO factual engineering data on line, looks like sends data to 3rd party, which I will not do (home lab with PWM circuits generates LOTS of EMI, would continually get alarms I suspect)

Also wonder if insurance companies would use to raise rates or cancel insurance, etc...

The 3rd party aspect is kinda spooky to me, aka web site e.g. "the technician called me..."

Having worked on the space station arc fault detection designs in the 1990s, pretty sure that even with sensor and algorithm advances since then the space available in a 'wall wart' is not sufficient for an effective high level reliability device in a kprice range for insurance companies to give away.

 

[ramsy]

TING detector was discussed on Reddit

https://www.reddit.com/r/askanelectrician/comments/l9ledz

 

[letgomywago]

Any experience? HO insurance offering for free.

Almost NO factual engineering data on line, looks like sends data to 3rd party, which I will not do (home lab with PWM circuits generates LOTS of EMI, would continually get alarms I suspect)

Also wonder if insurance companies would use to raise rates or cancel insurance, etc...

The 3rd party aspect is kinda spooky to me, aka web site e.g. "the technician called me..."

Having worked on the space station arc fault detection designs in the 1990s, pretty sure that even with sensor and algorithm advances since then the space available in a 'wall wart' is not sufficient for an effective high level reliability device in a kprice range for insurance companies to give away.

If it's just the same internals as a leviton smart AFCI device then it could fit in a wall wart and still be only about 100 bucks or so to manufacture. Stuff has come a long ways since the 90s.

 

[junkhound]

The Reddit link has minimal if any technical info.
The best review as it is a China company:
"The last thing I need is another Smart device feeding my information to China."

I know that what was a breadbox size in 1990 now fits in an iphone or less. Yet the Reddit site implies about all the thing can do is monitor line voltage and some EMI signatures, nothing like the Ting website claims for security.

I will set State Farm keep it, dont want any snoopers in the house I dont already have

 

[letgomywago]

The Reddit link has minimal if any technical info.
The best review as it is a China company:
"The last thing I need is another Smart device feeding my information to China."

I know that what was a breadbox size in 1990 now fits in an iphone or less. Yet the Reddit site implies about all the thing can do is monitor line voltage and some EMI signatures, nothing like the Ting website claims for security.

I will set State Farm keep it, dont want any snoopers in the house I dont already have

I've told the same thing to everyone who says I should get an Alexa. And now they've gotten in trouble for listening when not supposed to. Lenovo got in trouble for a similar thing a decade ago. Maybe I should Ron Swanson my way through life.

 

[F&FELECTRICGUY]

I was at a client's house last night and she showed me her new "amazing" device her insurance company "made" her get to keep her rates low...So help me understand how something that plugs into an outlet can protect your entire house? It only is reading 120volts? Only half the panel in a multi wire set up. (240volts) If an arc fault or another fault occurs on the other side of the multi wire, what good is this thing going to do? Also if it is a bad enough fault and it causes a fire how will it stop it? It can't shut that circuit off. Your house will still burn down and the device with it. It clearly is sending information to another vendor. And it's tied to your wifi...how is this ok???? I would love someone else's feedback.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

While one major insurance company has bought into this there is no third party technical review to even suggest it might have a function other than making money for the company that makes it and processes the data.

 

[texie]

While one major insurance company has bought into this there is no third party technical review to even suggest it might have a function other than making money for the company that makes it and processes the data.

I couldn't agree more. I have looked into this few times in the last few years. I have not found anything that validates the claims. After all, after all these years nobody has demonstrated to me that arc fault devices required in the code really have any value or even do what they claim. At least this device won't trip any circuits as the NEC devices do. If it did I'm sure that would end the whole program.
Of course then there is the issue of the data being collected and what all it is being used for.

 

[Jraef]

ASSuming that what they have is an algorithm that can accurately(?) detect an arcing fault simply by monitoring it's effects on the line voltage only, I'm going to go out on a limb here and also ASSume that nuisance alerts will be a problem. With so many electronic power supplies on EVERYTHING now causing harmonics and common mode noise, I can envision that this thing will either be alerting every time an LED driver hiccups, or they have their filtering set so high that it basically does nothing.
It's not the same as an AFCI, because an AFCI is measuring the CURRENT of a SPECIFIC circuit. This is only plugged in, so it can only see voltage. How that can detect a utility power line problem? I have no clue...

 

[texie]

In addition to my previous comments, I have to wonder why an insurance company would be involved in this given that the physics of this are some what questionable and this is not a the kind of thing that most would buy into with their own money. If this device is so great, why is it not something everyone is clamoring to buy at the local big box store or Amazon? And given that the insurers bean counters would want some tangible evidence of the value in this, it makes me wonder what the interest really is for State Farm.
There must be something here that I don't get.

 

[retirede]

In addition to my previous comments, I have to wonder why an insurance company would be involved in this given that the physics of this are some what questionable and this is not a the kind of thing that most would buy into with their own money. If this device is so great, why is it not something everyone is clamoring to buy at the local big box store or Amazon? And given that the insurers bean counters would want some tangible evidence of the value in this, it makes me wonder what the interest really is for State Farm.
There must be something here that I don't get.

It wouldn’t surprise me a bit if there was a financial agreement in place between the 2 companies.

 

[F&FELECTRICGUY]

I would like to get my hands on one of these and see in a test lab setting what it really does. My students in my class (lab) would have a hay day with this thing. It to me is a glorified circuit tester. Its only plugged into 1-120volt circuit and the screen I saw on the client's smartphone showed it "reading" 120 volts. Thats all. I also want to know who dispatches who in regards to coming and checking your wiring. My client is as remote as you can get away from any contractor who would even think of going out on a "trouble" call. Who pays for that? But from the comments above the real issue I think in this entire thing is the 3rd party monitoring and who is doing it?

 

[kwired]

Any experience? HO insurance offering for free.

Almost NO factual engineering data on line, looks like sends data to 3rd party, which I will not do (home lab with PWM circuits generates LOTS of EMI, would continually get alarms I suspect)

Also wonder if insurance companies would use to raise rates or cancel insurance, etc...

The 3rd party aspect is kinda spooky to me, aka web site e.g. "the technician called me..."

Having worked on the space station arc fault detection designs in the 1990s, pretty sure that even with sensor and algorithm advances since then the space available in a 'wall wart' is not sufficient for an effective high level reliability device in a kprice range for insurance companies to give away.

I'm not really certain it is highly effective in a miniature circuit breaker sized device either. Remember the breakers also have the thermal mag components in there as well.

 

[Jraef]

My client is as remote as you can get away from any contractor who would even think of going out on a "trouble" call. Who pays for that?

Good point! Now I wonder if there is an “Affiliated Contractor” program aspect to this, where a contractor signs up with them to be the one that goes out on the trouble calls. I have to imagine that contractor will have to pay something, like a subscription fee(?) to be on their list. If so and (again) ASSuming that this thing works to pick up a UTILITY side problem, I can envision a lot of angry end users who get a call-out bill for something that this contractor can’t fix. So does that contractor just take it in the shorts on that? Too many questions and questionable aspects to this.

I smell scam at multiple levels.