To solar ready panel

[Esthy]

A Customer needed to replace the 17 years old Siemens 200 amps service panel for a Solar Ready Panel. The old panel was partially labeled and the multiwire on single pole breakers and not ties.

I recommended that at the same time of the replacement to install double poles for the multiwire, group the multiwire (neutral & ungrounds) inside the panel, make the full directory of the circuits and because there was a lot of space as this is a large panel, to leave space between the large appliances breakers to disipate heat as this panel is most of the time under the Arizona heat and facing the sun most of the day, and torque to specification all electrical connections (breakers, neutrals, etc.)

A contractor sent a non-licensed electrician to do the job and replaced the panel in the same condition it was, partially labeled, single pole breakers with not ties for the multiwire, etc, etc., and he stated that it didn't need ll that jumbo-mumbo because it wasn't an upgrade.

Your opinions please?

 

[ggunn]

A Customer needed to replace the 17 years old Siemens 200 amps service panel for a Solar Ready Panel. The old panel was partially labeled and the multiwire on single pole breakers and not ties.

I recommended that at the same time of the replacement to install double poles for the multiwire, group the multiwire (neutral & ungrounds) inside the panel, make the full directory of the circuits and because there was a lot of space as this is a large panel, to leave space between the large appliances breakers to disipate heat as this panel is most of the time under the Arizona heat and facing the sun most of the day, and torque to specification all electrical connections (breakers, neutrals, etc.)

A contractor sent a non-licensed electrician to do the job and replaced the panel in the same condition it was, partially labeled, single pole breakers with not ties for the multiwire, etc, etc., and he stated that it didn't need ll that jumbo-mumbo because it wasn't an upgrade.

Your opinions please?

By "solar ready" do you mean it has a set of double lugs on the line side of the main breaker to facilitate a supply side interconnection? Is there some reason you couldn't have tapped the service conductors of the original panel with IPCs (insulation piercing connectors) to make the connection?

 

[jaggedben]

...

A contractor sent a non-licensed electrician to do the job and replaced the panel in the same condition it was, partially labeled, single pole breakers with not ties for the multiwire, etc, etc., and he stated that it didn't need ll that jumbo-mumbo because it wasn't an upgrade.

Your opinions please?

That logic wouldn't fly very far in the places I work. It hardly matters what the reason is for replacing the panel. You didn't even mention AFCI.

 

[Esthy]

That logic wouldn't fly very far in the places I work. It hardly matters what the reason is for replacing the panel. You didn't even mention AFCI.

Yes, I didn't want to go so far in this situation as AFCI, GFCI, etc. The city or the solar company required the solar panel ready or the contractor sold the idea. But, I was there seeing the replacement and installation as an observer (planning to do some business with this contractor) but, I THINK, that the first violation was the un-licensed installer without supervision, but I offered the previous "tips" mentioned in the post and it was rejected as: we are not doing an upgrade, we are replacing for a similar product (seeing those I didn't go with that contractor in business). The worst part "in my opinion" is that AZ doesn't t have any longer Electrical Inspectors and the "combo inspector" PASSED this installation, I was there. He asked the installer about the breakers directory, the installer told him that the old cover didn't have it and he didn't know what breaker was for AND the inspector agreed and signed. This house has 10 smoke detectors (large house) and those are 17 years old and some malfunctioning, I encourage the homeowner to replace those and I told the contractor to write a note advising him to do that for liability purposes and his response was that he wasn't hire to do smoke detectors! WHOA!!!

I have licenses in WA as well and I don't think that situation will fly there.

 

[jaggedben]

Sound like a situation where the installer likely knew what to expect from the inspector. I'd mean, I've seen my share of inspectors pass mediocre work (and I do not mean my own work! ). But it's foolish behavior if you don't know who the inspector is likely to be.

The only part I somewhat agree with is not replacing the smoke detectors. I wouldn't do work I wasn't being paid to do either.

 

[cowboyjwc]

That logic wouldn't fly very far in the places I work. It hardly matters what the reason is for replacing the panel. You didn't even mention AFCI.

Why would you need AFCI? You are not doing any of the things that require you to install AFCI. In CA a solar ready panel usually has one spot at the top that is used only for a solar breaker and you are not limited to the 120% rule.

 

[Esthy]

About the smoke detectors. The house's power was turned off to do the installation and when power was restored, the SD went bananas because they are 17 years old, so I recommend to put in writing the situation.

Who do you think they are going to blame/sue, is a fire happens after the electrical contractor was there?

Now, I was in Tucson for many years and electrical inspectors did their job, but now in another part of AZ with those combo inspectors the situation changed and installers know that, I am really new in this area and I am shock with the things I see here. Few day ago I posted the other situation with the MHP.

 

[jaggedben]

Why would you need AFCI? You are not doing any of the things that require you to install AFCI.

Please come tell that to some of the inspectors up here in my area. It's somewhat off topic, and I don't even directly deal with it. Suffice to say some places are requiring AFCI in any new service panel.

In CA a solar ready panel usually has one spot at the top that is used only for a solar breaker and you are not limited to the 120% rule.

Seems to me those are becoming less common compared to the ones with a 225A busbar and/or the provision for extra meter lugs. But that's off topic. I think solar is essentially irrelevant to the subject. The OP could have been asking the same question because a home inspector advised someone to replace their FPE or Zinsco service panel with a new one of the same rating.

 

[ggunn]

In CA a solar ready panel usually has one spot at the top that is used only for a solar breaker and you are not limited to the 120% rule.

Explain, please. The only way I can see that this could work is if the solar breaker is a supply side connection, i.e., ahead of the panel main breaker and not connected to the panel bus except through the main. Is that what they are doing?

 

[jaggedben]

Explain, please. The only way I can see that this could work is if the solar breaker is a supply side connection, i.e., ahead of the panel main breaker and not connected to the panel bus except through the main. Is that what they are doing?

I believe that's what cowboyjc was referring to. See for example this one.

The Siemens ones I've seen are rated 60A for that extra disconnect. Square D makes some that have a 50A slot. Both of which are less than the 70A allowed at the opposite end with a 200A main breaker and 225A busbar.

 

[cowboyjwc]

Explain, please. The only way I can see that this could work is if the solar breaker is a supply side connection, i.e., ahead of the panel main breaker and not connected to the panel bus except through the main. Is that what they are doing?

It is.