told to do something against code

[justinaway1]

If you knowingly install something that you know isn't safe, then you are liable for damge or injuries caused by that something.
I got a ticket in a contractors van that wasn't quite street safe and I had to pay for operating an unsafe vehicle. There was no other work, eventually I got my check and then another job. I still see that same POS van in town.

 

[JJWalecka]

Thank you all for your time and feedback

 

[Safety Guy]

I am of the opinion that if you do not like the working conditions or situations it is up to you to leave and find someplace else to work.

I do not feel it is your place or your job to straighten out the boss or the company unless you have been asked to.

Obviously I would not do something that I feel would be a danger but I would consider looking for another place to work.

I'm sorry but I completely disagree. If it's a serious code violation of any kind it's his duty to report that "someone", even if anonymously to the local building inspector. It could very well get some poor guy killed later if not caught. I inspect and no matter how good you are, you miss things. I had a bad day, I was distracted, whatever. It's everyone's job to be diligent at insuring serious code violations don't get passed over. I couldn't have lived with that on my concience back when I used to do that work. Being told to violate code isn't "working conditions". That's negligence. Depending on the level, it can be criminal. The worker himself can be held liable if he "knowingly" installed this, "knowing" it's dangerous and potentially deadly and failed to inform anyone and someone does get killed due to it. And as the saying goes, if it's not in writing, it didn't happen.

 

[Safety Guy]

He who writes the check is always right.

I agree, but I would add to that "even if only temporarily". If he "who writes the check" is going to cause me to end up paying with jail time or financially due to lawsuits...No, he's not right. And I would be willing to endure or do whatever it takes, to insure he's removed from "writing check(s)" ever again if necessary.

 

[roger]

I'm sorry but I completely disagree. If it's a serious code violation of any kind it's his duty to report that "someone", even if anonymously to the local building inspector.

Okay, in one thread you liken reporting unpermitted work to Nazi Germany and here you are advocating it, are your sights set on becoming a politician? :grin::grin::grin:



Roger

 

[danickstr]

if someone threatened your life for doing a job to code, send me their phone number in a PM, I will talk to them.

 

[petersonra]

Okay, in one thread you liken reporting unpermitted work to Nazi Germany and here you are advocating it, are your sights set on becoming a politician? :grin::grin::grin:
Roger

There is a huge difference between minor things involving only money such as unpermitted work and life or death situations.

 

[roger]

There is a huge difference between minor things involving only money such as unpermitted work and life or death situations.

Uh uh, so IYO the unpermitted work done by a neighbor that results in a fire that also burns down the surrounding houses is just a minor thing? I think I understand now.

In summary, IYO it is not that big of a tragedy for a neighbor performing unpermitted and uninspected work to create a catastrophy resulting in property damage and death?

It never dawned on me that there was a difference in negligent injury or death based on who was violating the law. :roll:


Roger

 

[iwire]

Where I am things are bit of a mess.

In short the way the law is written homeowners do not need to pull permits or get inspections.

Some towns will issue permits to homeowners other towns have signs right at the inspection window that say 'No Homeowner Permits Issued or Inspected.'


The law basically says 'If you get paid for doing electrical work you need licenses and permits. If you do electrical work for free no permits or licenses needed.'

 

[satcom]

Uh uh, so IYO the unpermitted work done by a neighbor that results in a fire that also burns down the surrounding houses is just a minor thing? I think I understand now.

In summary, IYO it is not that big of a tragedy for a neighbor performing unpermitted and uninspected work to create a catastrophy resulting in property damage and death?

It never dawned on me that there was a difference in negligent injury or death based on who was violating the law. :roll:


Roger

The way I see it, is get permits and inspections where required, one of the reasons we get permits and inspections when and where required is, we want to protect ourself and the owners from liability issues, that may arise, and some insurance liability issues, such as the policies with limit clauses where they state i the insurance contract that all work that requires permits or inspections, shall be permitted and inspected, working will vary from company to company, and some companies do not have any clauses on permits or inspections, but if they do, it could be your putting the most valued asset at risk, the customers home.

 

[petersonra]

Uh uh, so IYO the unpermitted work done by a neighbor that results in a fire that also burns down the surrounding houses is just a minor thing? I think I understand now.

In summary, IYO it is not that big of a tragedy for a neighbor performing unpermitted and uninspected work to create a catastrophy resulting in property damage and death?

It never dawned on me that there was a difference in negligent injury or death based on who was violating the law. :roll:


Roger

The vast majority of unpermitted and/or uninspected work never involves any danger to anyone.

And there is a fair amount of permitted and inspected work that has resulted in problems.

 

[roger]

The vast majority of unpermitted and/or uninspected work never involves any danger to anyone.

I would say that is true, and I would also say the vast majority of speeders don't cause wrecks, the problem comes with the minority that do cause injuries and death

And there is a fair amount of permitted and inspected work that has resulted in problems.

And those driving within the speed limit sometimes cause wrecks, but in either case, the law abiders cause very few calamities in comparison with their counterparts.

Roger

 

[petersonra]

I would say that is true, and I would also say the vast majority of speeders don't cause wrecks, the problem comes with the minority that do cause injuries and death

And those driving within the speed limit sometimes cause wrecks, but in either case, the law abiders cause very few calamities in comparison with their counterparts.

Roger

So you have some kind of numbers to back up the supposition that unpermitted work is more of a problem than permitted work?

 

[satcom]

So you have some kind of numbers to back up the supposition that unpermitted work is more of a problem than permitted work?

I have plenty of job reports, and violation photos, from over the past 30 plus years, to indicate the non permitted non inspected work has more problems, and any good contractor with years of experience, also knows.

 

[iwire]

So you have some kind of numbers to back up the supposition that unpermitted work is more of a problem than permitted work?

Yes, all the red tags inspectors give out, as those cause corrections to the poor work.

Certainly there are some DIYs that do excellent work, I can tell you with great confidence that is not the case for most.

 

[roger]

So you have some kind of numbers to back up the supposition that unpermitted work is more of a problem than permitted work?

You go first, show us your numbers to back up your statement.

The vast majority of unpermitted and/or uninspected work never involves any danger to anyone.

:roll:

Roger

 

[cowboyjwc]

So you have some kind of numbers to back up the supposition that unpermitted work is more of a problem than permitted work?

I can tell you with some pride, that no one has ever died, been injured or had a fire, due to electrical work, in any building that I have inspected in the last 20 years. The same cannot be said for buildings that I have not inspected.

 

[petersonra]

I can tell you with some pride, that no one has ever died, been injured or had a fire, due to electrical work, in any building that I have inspected in the last 20 years. The same cannot be said for buildings that I have not inspected.

Think back to the greatest disasters that have occurred in the US regarding building code violations. The collapse of the balcony in KC, the fire in the county owned building in Chicago, the famous bridge that fell apart, the high rise fires in LV and PR (just a few that come to mind). All were inspected and it did nothing to prevent the disaster.

 

[readydave8]

Think back to the greatest disasters that have occurred in the US regarding building code violations. The collapse of the balcony in KC, the fire in the county owned building in Chicago, the famous bridge that fell apart, the high rise fires in LV and PR (just a few that come to mind). All were inspected and it did nothing to prevent the disaster.

anecdotes are not statistics