Too Cheap ???

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sundowner

sundowner

Senior Member
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West Wisconsin
I recently bid an unattached garage for a niegbor down the street. During the walk through he had mentioned several times that he
"Knew how to do that" so I should not figure that into the price. I'm wondering if you guys have run into this kind of BS before ? I sort of said something to the effect that I was an Electrician and not a High school shop teacher. After all when it burns down, the AHJ won't be asking for his insurance. I'm wondering if this guy is the exception, or if this is more comon than I thought. Any stories?

Thanks
 
Re: Too Cheap ???

I'm sure there are hundreds of stories like this one. I believe the best you can do to protect yourself is to take out a permit for the work you are about to do. Then clearly define what work you are doing in a signed contract and make sure you get it inspected.

For example, if you contract to just bring power to the detached garage and not install any lighting or receptacles, state that in the contract. That way if the homeowner installs anything beyond the disconnect and the garage subsequently burns down you should have enough documentation to protect you from a lawsuit.

I'm always leery about doing jobs like this but you can't prevent homeowners from doing work in their own homes.
 
Re: Too Cheap ???

Yeah, when i get stuck on the residential work it seems like every other homeowner does this,they love to putz around in that garage....they think they will save money here and anyone can do it.

Like this other guy stated this happens hundreds of times.
I work for a electrical outfit as a employee so I can laugh about this, If I were the contractor that would be a different story and not so funny.
 
Re: Too Cheap ???

I just did a job last week where a couple bought a 5 year old home and wanted a laundry list of things like ceiling lights in the bedrooms, fans and recessed lights in various places. As I was doing the walk through with the couple, I asked to look in the attic space. When I went up the pull-down ladder I had to call to their attention that the prvious owners (or maybe the builder?) had thrown plywood all over the top cords of the trusses thereby pinching about 7 or 8 Romex ciruits under them. I very tactfully explained the seriousness of teh problem and told them that I could not perform any work in their home if this was not corrected first. The husband was a little pretured at first and said that he would "take care of that", but the wife was so impressed that none of the other guys had said anything she insisted that I do the work.
 
Re: Too Cheap ???

I LIKE TO AVIOD THOSE HEADACHES BECAUSE 1 OR 2 YEARS LATER DOWN THE ROAD YOU MIGHT GET A LETTER FROM SOME YAHOO LAYWER WANTING TO FORCE A SETTLEMENT ON YOU.
GO WITH A GOOD CONTRACT AND GET A PERMIT, THATS HELPS ME SLEEP AT NIGHT.
SIGNED
"BEEN THERE, DONE THAT"
 
Re: Too Cheap ???

Get everything possible in writing, in triplicate if you can, maybe even signed in blood with a clause including the firstborn, etc. You can't be too careful.
When a homeowner says "I can do that." I say, "Great, go ahead and do that. Give me a call when you're done and it's been inspected, then I'll finish up for you." They usually change their minds pretty quick.
 
Re: Too Cheap ???

Thanks for the replies guys, I was curious if I am the only one to ever get these morphidite calls. I also would like not to be known as a smart mouth when dealing with customers. (Word of mouth advertising and all) I am still wondering what the inspectors' role here would be. What if something later on down the road happened, such as a fire, what responsibility does the inspector have. I realize that he cant (should'nt have to) check for compliance in every nook and cranny. But what happens when he misses something.

Thanks again guys
 
Re: Too Cheap ???

My understanding is the AHJ has limited liability for bad work. They make a good faith effort to inspect the work. They cannot find every defect. In fact, they look mostly at safety and pay little attention to function. They usually have a short list of stuff they look for and if you pass the short list they don't look deeper. If you fail the short list then they do look deeper. I guess experience has shown them that if you're careful on the obvious stuff you probably have good ethics and aren't going to compromise on the not so obvious stuff. Plus, they only have an allotted time for each job and they have many jobs to inspect daily. If they go too deep on one job, then they cannot finish their route.

I've heard of a few jobs where the homeowner pulled the permit and then hired EC's to do various projects on the site. No matter how many EC's were on the site it all fell under one Electrical Permit. Most AHJ's won't allow multiple permits on the job at the same time. These homeowner contractors at times have more than one EC performing parallel tasks. Worse yet the homeowner steps in and takes on some of the "easy" projects. When it's all signed off and somebody gets barbecued, the homeowner will go after whoever s/he chooses even if it's not really the fault of the particular EC. Or, they might go for the deep pocket. Or, they might be insane :)

Get a release of liability, but it may not be worth the paper it's written on if somebody gets hurt down the road by the electrical work-- no matter who did the work everybody will be called on the carpet.

Getting a permit and inspections is not a guarantee that everything was done properly. It's an imperfect process overseen by imperfect inspectors. It does not shift ultimate liability to the AHJ and does not indemnify anybody.
 
Re: Too Cheap ???

Sundowner
In the last years of my contracting, I paid more attention to the details that I included with my permit. It may cost a little more for the inspection, but my rear is covered just as in your example.


Pierre
 
Re: Too Cheap ???

What is morphidite? I get the drift, but I'm not familiar with that word.
 
Re: Too Cheap ???

I'm with Scott, if the work makes you uncomfortable, just don't do it. There's plenty more out there.
 
Re: Too Cheap ???

Best advise:
1: Walk away.
2: Get what the customer wants in WRITING and have him SIGN it. Even if he says he'll make good on his word, put it in writing.
3: Don't do FREE or CHEAP work just to get the job. Your years of training, licenses, and insurance are far too valuable for you to go broke. If everyone else charges $65.00 per hour
You should charge the same. If you bid it high and get the job,, it was worth you time.
If you bid the job too low, you'll kick yourself. Especially when problems arise.
 
Re: Too Cheap ???

I back up the Phantom! When I was young, and desparate to get any kind of work, I would end up contracting out for $10.00 an hour and end up paying the customer back $2.00 an hour for the privelage of working in his home.

Older and wiser now, I never bid a job just "to keep me working!" If I can't make a reasonable profit, then let the scavengers have the remains. I have earned the right to be paid a respectable, but reasonable rate, or I just go fishing.

If I am going to get burnt these days, it will be by the Arizona sun.
 
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