Torque or else !

[mlnk]

After final sign off by inspector, I received this demand from the homeowner:
Prior to final payment,
Electrical Contractor shall torque all electrical connections, including lugs, circuit breakers, switches, and receptacles to manufacturers specifications using a calibrated torque screwdriver or calibrated torque wrench. Electrical Contractor will sign a letter that he has torqued the above connections and submit the letter to the homeowner.
What would you do?

 

[sparky1118]

Got to love customers like that.... just write him a letter saying that you always do that. There isn’t a way for him to tell if something had been torqued to the specifications I believe.

 

[infinity]

Unless a contract demand was written and signed before the work is done I don't see any legal way the homeowner can withhold the final payment. Torquing connections is required by the NEC and should be part of the final inspection, once it has been signed off by the inspector you are entitled to your payment.

 

[growler]

Electrical Contractor shall torque all electrical connections, including lugs, circuit breakers, switches, and receptacles to manufacturers specifications using a calibrated torque screwdriver or calibrated torque wrench.
What would you do?

I hear back stabbing is quite popular for switches and receptacles.

 

[kwired]

If you actually did torque those items, tell them that is proper way to terminate and was done that way.

If they want you to do it again, submit charges for a change order and invite them to witness the second go around if they wish.

Proper way to do this again would be to loosen every connection then re-tighten using the torque wrench.

 

[Besoeker3]

After final sign off by inspector, I received this demand from the homeowner:
Prior to final payment,
Electrical Contractor shall torque all electrical connections, including lugs, circuit breakers, switches, and receptacles to manufacturers specifications using a calibrated torque screwdriver or calibrated torque wrench. Electrical Contractor will sign a letter that he has torqued the above connections and submit the letter to the homeowner.
What would you do?

After it already passed final inspection????
Sounds like a lame excuse to avoid, or at least delay, payment.

 

[ptonsparky]

Since you've already done this as standard industry practice, tell them of the recalibration expense and time frame before they can occupy if they would like it redone. IIRC it took about six weeks for my Klien to be calibrated and certified the last time it was done.

 

[mlnk]

Do spot checking. Pick any 5 receptacles or switches. I will set my driver at 12 inch/lbs. Then demonstrate that it clicks without any further tightening. Then move setting to 15 to show the screw moves to achieve 15. Then retorque to 13.

 

[kwired]

Do spot checking. Pick any 5 receptacles or switches. I will set my driver at 12 inch/lbs. Then demonstrate that it clicks without any further tightening. Then move setting to 15 to show the screw moves to achieve 15. Then retorque to 13.

Now you overtightened it and need to replace it

 

[charlie b]

If they want you to do it again, submit charges for a change order and invite them to witness the second go around if they wish.

To that I would add that you should insist on payment for the previous work before you start new work.

 

[Besoeker3]

To that I would add that you should insist on payment for the previous work before you start new work.

Good point, old fellow.......

 

[winnie]

Standard industry practice is 'fasten until it feels right'. IMHO this is the _correct_ approach for most connections; sometimes this is all the instructions say (see for example: https://www.leviton.com/en/docs/LB-205-T5320-20E_Instruction_Sheet.pdf "firmly tighten screws over wire loops" )

Sometimes the instructions specifically give a torque value, and if the tolerance on that value is narrow then IMHO the customer has right to say 'follow the instructions, inspection or no'. But this is likely a small portion of the entire job. For most of the devices in a residential job the allowed torque range is very wide (meaning your calibrated fingers are good enough) or there is no specified torque value in the device instructions.

For the vast majority of a residential job using a calibrated torque instrument is severe overkill which the customer can certainly ask for and the electrician can certainly charge extra for. Asking for this after the job is completed is IMHO a change order which should be billed for (with the exception of the few devices mentioned above; I bet the lugs on the main panel board do have a specified torque value).

-Jon

 

[sameguy]

Then you push the device into the box adding strain to the connection, pull it out of the box adding strain to the connection, +/-4% on your tool, plus vague or large torque range, adds up to hand tight now pay up.
Where/why has the owner suddenly come up with this? As most people don't torque lug nuts after tire rotation per the instructions; just sounds fishy to me.

 

[Besoeker3]

Standard industry practice is 'fasten until it feels right'. IMHO this is the _correct_ approach for most connections; sometimes this is all the instructions say (see for example: https://www.leviton.com/en/docs/LB-205-T5320-20E_Instruction_Sheet.pdf "firmly tighten screws over wire loops" )

Sometimes the instructions specifically give a torque value, and if the tolerance on that value is narrow then IMHO the customer has right to say 'follow the instructions, inspection or no'. But this is likely a small portion of the entire job. For most of the devices in a residential job the allowed torque range is very wide (meaning your calibrated fingers are good enough) or there is no specified torque value in the device instructions.

For the vast majority of a residential job using a calibrated torque instrument is severe overkill which the customer can certainly ask for and the electrician can certainly charge extra for. Asking for this after the job is completed is IMHO a change order which should be billed for (with the exception of the few devices mentioned above; I bet the lugs on the main panel board do have a specified torque value).

-Jon

No disagreement with any of that.
Just a passing thought or two. How much would it cost to torque the connections, placate the recalcitrant customer, and get paid? How much in comparison with what is owed? How much would cost and how much time would it require to take legal action against him? In short, is it worth the aggravation?

Please understand, I think the customer, in this case, is totally wrong and unethical. And there is no remaining issue to be resolved - except getting paid.

 

[LarryFine]

Prior to final payment,
Electrical Contractor shall torque all electrical connections, including lugs, circuit breakers, switches, and receptacles to manufacturers specifications using a calibrated torque screwdriver or calibrated torque wrench. Electrical Contractor will sign a letter that he has torqued the above connections and submit the letter to the homeowner.

"Our apologies, but changes to our contract must be put in writing and signed by both parties."

 

[growler]

Electrical Contractor shall torque all electrical connections, including lugs, circuit breakers, switches, and receptacles to manufacturers specifications using a calibrated torque screwdriver or calibrated torque wrench. Electrical Contractor will sign a letter that he has torqued the above connections and submit the letter to the homeowner.
What would you do?

I don't see the word "recently" in there anyplace. Sure they were calibrated back in 1989.

 

[growler]

Now you overtightened it and need to replace it

Are you sure it would need to be replaced?

The terminal screw can surely stand much more than 15 in. pounds of torque without damage. The torque value is for the pressure on the conductor.

 

[Besoeker3]

"Our apologies, but changes to our contract must be put in writing and signed by both parties."

"If you do that work, we won't pay you."

Where do you go from there?

 

[winnie]

IMHO the customer is playing a legal game for whatever reason. It might very well be easier to give in to the customer in order to get paid/get the job done, just as you (Besoeker) suggest. However it seems like a couple of legal maneuvers in response should come first

My grandfather was a plumber. He would regularly get checks for invoices where the check had the comment 'paid in full' for less than the amount of the invoice. It is a (sucky) negotiation tactic.

To the extent that industry standard practice _ignores_ proper torquing even when it is required, I actually agree with the customer. The electrician has a responsibility to actually read and follow the installation instructions. To the extent that the customer is simply looking for an excuse not to pay in a timely fashion...well go unplug their EV

-Jon

 

[gadfly56]

"If you do that work, we won't pay you."

Where do you go from there?

Small claims court. In NJ, you can go up to $5,000 IIRC.