bphgravity
Senior Member
- Location
- Florida
How many of you, your employees, or your co-workers, own a torque screwdriver or wrench and actually use it on terminations at intial installation? 
Torque Survey
- Thread starter bphgravity
- Start date
- Status
pierre
Senior Member
- Location
- Westchester County, New York
Re: Torque Survey
Bryan
I attend at least 3 or 4 meetings a month, and this issue has been discussed at all of them. It causes some of the most heated discussions at all of the meetings. My guestimate is that about 3% to 5% of the contractors have torque equipment and less use them.
Pierre
Bryan
I attend at least 3 or 4 meetings a month, and this issue has been discussed at all of them. It causes some of the most heated discussions at all of the meetings. My guestimate is that about 3% to 5% of the contractors have torque equipment and less use them.
Pierre
- Location
- Bremerton, Washington
- Occupation
- Master Electrician
Re: Torque Survey
I torque every terminal on a service and meter. Not usually on a small CB. I admit I don't own a torque screwdriver.
I torque every terminal on a service and meter. Not usually on a small CB. I admit I don't own a torque screwdriver.
gary
Senior Member
- Location
- California
- Occupation
- Retired electrical contractor / general contractor
Re: Torque Survey
This subject came up a few years ago and I found myself convinced by the proponents. I bought a Klein torque-driver from an on-line tool house and use it whenever I'm making up a new panel. There is simply no way to be sure you're not over or under tightening the screws on bus bars & circuit breakers without one. It only takes a few extra minutes to run down a bus bar or a bank of breakers and twist each screw till the driver snaps. When you close the panel you can walk away knowing you've done a safe, legal and professional job.
This subject came up a few years ago and I found myself convinced by the proponents. I bought a Klein torque-driver from an on-line tool house and use it whenever I'm making up a new panel. There is simply no way to be sure you're not over or under tightening the screws on bus bars & circuit breakers without one. It only takes a few extra minutes to run down a bus bar or a bank of breakers and twist each screw till the driver snaps. When you close the panel you can walk away knowing you've done a safe, legal and professional job.
caosesvida
Senior Member
Re: Torque Survey
I have used one since 83, I think they are the cats pajamas. I have a school that has a fair every spring. I take the service feeders out of the main breaker and put in the temps, its been 10 years now and the lugs are still in great shape. As opposed to changing out panels where the guy tightened the lugs until they became threadless. I have never seen or talked to anyone else who uses them though. I wouldn't do a service without one or two since one usually doesn't cover the meter and the main requirements. When you are done you know that you did everthing possible to get it right. Its peace of mind. And I wouldn't have any problem with taking back a main panel/breaker that stipped and getting a new one, which I have done, because I used the manufacturers specs.
I have used one since 83, I think they are the cats pajamas. I have a school that has a fair every spring. I take the service feeders out of the main breaker and put in the temps, its been 10 years now and the lugs are still in great shape. As opposed to changing out panels where the guy tightened the lugs until they became threadless. I have never seen or talked to anyone else who uses them though. I wouldn't do a service without one or two since one usually doesn't cover the meter and the main requirements. When you are done you know that you did everthing possible to get it right. Its peace of mind. And I wouldn't have any problem with taking back a main panel/breaker that stipped and getting a new one, which I have done, because I used the manufacturers specs.
richwaskowitz
Senior Member
- Location
- Shelby Twp. MI, near Detroit
Re: Torque Survey
I work for an automation systems integrator and we have a panel shop where our wiremen build our panels. Before we had a quality assurance program (when torque assurance/monitoring devices had not been used) we had seen several unfortunate results. The results were generally fairly predictable....Large terminations were left too loose and small ones like terminal strips and terminals on starters and relays were too tight. There were times when some gorilla tightened a small terminal so tightly that it COULD NOT be loosened in the field. And we have found the bigger ones (1/0 to 500 mcm) so loose that you could pull the conductors out with your hand.
When I personally perform the occasional residential service replacement job, I religiously use a torque wrench on the meter and main breaker lugs. I had a helper snap the fiberglass jaw assembly off in several meter bases when one was not used. Once this happened on an energized underground meter base. It was quite a trick replacing that jaw at 8 o'clock in the evening without having the service de-energized at the transformer.
I must confess that I do not use a torque screwdriver on switches and receptacles. My only defense (albeit flimsy) is that I feel that after 30 years, I know when a device is properly tightened.
I work for an automation systems integrator and we have a panel shop where our wiremen build our panels. Before we had a quality assurance program (when torque assurance/monitoring devices had not been used) we had seen several unfortunate results. The results were generally fairly predictable....Large terminations were left too loose and small ones like terminal strips and terminals on starters and relays were too tight. There were times when some gorilla tightened a small terminal so tightly that it COULD NOT be loosened in the field. And we have found the bigger ones (1/0 to 500 mcm) so loose that you could pull the conductors out with your hand.
When I personally perform the occasional residential service replacement job, I religiously use a torque wrench on the meter and main breaker lugs. I had a helper snap the fiberglass jaw assembly off in several meter bases when one was not used. Once this happened on an energized underground meter base. It was quite a trick replacing that jaw at 8 o'clock in the evening without having the service de-energized at the transformer.
I must confess that I do not use a torque screwdriver on switches and receptacles. My only defense (albeit flimsy) is that I feel that after 30 years, I know when a device is properly tightened.
A
a.wayne3@verizon.net
Guest
Re: Torque Survey
Just tighen a milbanks meter their ground lugs well are least to be desired ,our guys have stripped all to many out .but inspector wants all connections tight.
Just tighen a milbanks meter their ground lugs well are least to be desired ,our guys have stripped all to many out .but inspector wants all connections tight.
brian john
Senior Member
- Location
- Kilmarnock, Va
- Occupation
- Retired after 52 years in the trade.
Re: Torque Survey
My employees have(I bought) torque wrenches both inch lb and foot lb and torquing screw drivers. It has been my expierence that most connections are over torqued, though it is the few connections that are under torqued that that cause the most problems.
My employees have(I bought) torque wrenches both inch lb and foot lb and torquing screw drivers. It has been my expierence that most connections are over torqued, though it is the few connections that are under torqued that that cause the most problems.
mikeames
Senior Member
- Location
- Gaithersburg MD
- Occupation
- Teacher - Master Electrician - 2017 NEC
Re: Torque Survey
Someone on this site once said
"When in doubt, click it out"
Someone on this site once said
"When in doubt, click it out"
paul renshaw
Senior Member
- Location
- Cordova, Maryland
Re: Torque Survey
We have a torque screwdriver at work, and I own one myself. If you have a torque wrench, a 1/4" socket with a screwdriver tip will do the same, and actually we use that when the screwdriver will not go high enough. I once heard a contractor trying to get warranty out of a 6 month old panel that the neutral bar had a problem with and when the panel mfg. rep asked if he used a torque device on the screws, the reply was no. The rep then replied, we have nothing else to discuss because you did not read and follow mfg instructions on the label. I witnessed this conversation in a supply house.
We have a torque screwdriver at work, and I own one myself. If you have a torque wrench, a 1/4" socket with a screwdriver tip will do the same, and actually we use that when the screwdriver will not go high enough. I once heard a contractor trying to get warranty out of a 6 month old panel that the neutral bar had a problem with and when the panel mfg. rep asked if he used a torque device on the screws, the reply was no. The rep then replied, we have nothing else to discuss because you did not read and follow mfg instructions on the label. I witnessed this conversation in a supply house.
bill addiss
Senior Member
Re: Torque Survey
Good point Paul.
Bill
Good point Paul.
Bill
Re: Torque Survey
Hi pgr; Long time, no see.
I have performed in dependant bench quality tests on push in an wrap around terminations on devices and terminal blocks.
The bum rap for push in connections appears to be when No.#14 could be pushed into No.#12 holes.
I tightened a 12 around a screw, on a receptacle, it took 12 movements to loosing and finally break the wire.
I inserted a 12 in one of the old style receptacles, it took 40 movements to break the wire. The clamp connection was still tight, with shiny copper exposed,
Try this test if in doubt.
Hi pgr; Long time, no see.
I have performed in dependant bench quality tests on push in an wrap around terminations on devices and terminal blocks.
The bum rap for push in connections appears to be when No.#14 could be pushed into No.#12 holes.
I tightened a 12 around a screw, on a receptacle, it took 12 movements to loosing and finally break the wire.
I inserted a 12 in one of the old style receptacles, it took 40 movements to break the wire. The clamp connection was still tight, with shiny copper exposed,
Try this test if in doubt.
- Status