Tough call

[fisherelectric]

I have a guy working for me for 5 1/2 years. A little wild, but a good service man. Not scared of work, good attitude. I depend on him to do a lot of work that comes through the door. A lot of personal problems that sometimes affected his work, but it was getting better. He was also a good friend.
He started a handy man service, pressure washing, drywall, painting, etc and had some Hispanics he would hire out. I told him fine, just don't be running your business on my time....no phone calls etc. Then I found out he was soliciting my customers for his handy man services, including the contractors I work for. We do strictly residential. I told him I didn't think it was a good idea several times. Then I finally told him to stop. Leave my customers alone. I told him if he wanted to solicit the 3 or 4 real estate people we work for to do their house inspection punch lists fine, but otherwise leave my customers alone. Today we were working in a house for a contractor who has his own painters. The woman who owned the house showed up and was remarking about what a good job the painters were doing and she needed to get her personal house painted. So this guy pipes up and says he has painters and would love to do her work...here's my card. So I fired him. Now we are both screwed. He's looking for a job and I'm looking for someone to do his.

 

[augie47]

Based on similar situations I have seen over the years, you will be ahead in the long run. He showed little respect for the reasonable limits you set and matters would have continued downhill.

 

[fisherelectric]

Thanks Augie. I know you're right. The boy really left me no choice. He will be really hard to replace. He just got married and jobs aren't exactly growing on trees around here. I warned him and told him working on the side for my customers or stealing my contractor's work was not smart business and a bad idea and that if he persisted we would have to part ways. If he screwed up, which he does fairly regularly, it would come back to haunt me somehow. He just couldn't restrain himself. The last thing he said was he was sorry he acted like a jackass. I feel bad, but I don't think I was out of line.

 

[readydave8]

many times doing the right thing is no fun

 

[ceb58]

Thanks Augie. I know you're right. The boy really left me no choice. He will be really hard to replace. He just got married and jobs aren't exactly growing on trees around here. I warned him and told him working on the side for my customers or stealing my contractor's work was not smart business and a bad idea and that if he persisted we would have to part ways. If he screwed up, which he does fairly regularly, it would come back to haunt me somehow. He just couldn't restrain himself. The last thing he said was he was sorry he acted like a jackass. I feel bad, but I don't think I was out of line.

No, he's sorry you finely acted like a boss and business owner. If you would have allowed this to continue there is no telling how soon, if not have done already, would he be doing side work under your company name. I would check with other EC's who just for economy reasons layed a good employee off. You may be able to hire some one better qualified.

 

[GUNNING]

You did the right thing just not soon enough. It was going to get messy eventually. Now his business world is yours. Good news is the economy is tough and a replacement is around the corner.

 

[iwire]

I feel differently, in my opinion no company owns a customer.


Fire the man for doing his stuff on your time but firing him for doing other types of work for the same customers is petty in my personal opinion.

 

[readydave8]

I feel differently, in my opinion no company owns a customer.


Fire the man for doing his stuff on your time but firing him for doing other types of work for the same customers is petty in my personal opinion.

I don't see much of a problem with him doing other types of work for the same customers, soliciting them on company time can cause problems, I'm imagining a guy getting out of company truck, maybe wearing company uniform, even if he clocks out his time and explains that his business is totally separate customer may mentally associate the 2?

 

[ceb58]

Fire the man for doing his stuff on your time but firing him for doing other types of work for the same customers is petty in my personal opinion.

I don't see much of a problem with him doing other types of work for the same customers, soliciting them on company time can cause problems, I'm imagining a guy getting out of company truck, maybe wearing company uniform, even if he clocks out his time and explains that his business is totally separate customer may mentally associate the 2?

I have to agree the customer will not differentiate between the two. A contractor friend was doing a remodel for some people. 2 of his guys "contracted" them selves to the HO to do landscaping on the side. In their adventure they cut several LV wires. The HO jumps the contractor about fixing the wiring while he stands there with a dumb look on his face as in what are you talking about. After he figures out what has went on he called me to fix the problem so he could keep the customer happy, and get his money. The customer knew he contracted with the 2 guys but he was going to hold the contractor responsible because they were his guys.

 

[Fulthrotl]

I have a guy working for me for 5 1/2 years. A little wild, but a good service man. Not scared of work, good attitude. I depend on him to do a lot of work that comes through the door. A lot of personal problems that sometimes affected his work, but it was getting better. He was also a good friend.
He started a handy man service, pressure washing, drywall, painting, etc and had some Hispanics he would hire out. I told him fine, just don't be running your business on my time....no phone calls etc. Then I found out he was soliciting my customers for his handy man services, including the contractors I work for. We do strictly residential. I told him I didn't think it was a good idea several times. Then I finally told him to stop. Leave my customers alone. I told him if he wanted to solicit the 3 or 4 real estate people we work for to do their house inspection punch lists fine, but otherwise leave my customers alone. Today we were working in a house for a contractor who has his own painters. The woman who owned the house showed up and was remarking about what a good job the painters were doing and she needed to get her personal house painted. So this guy pipes up and says he has painters and would love to do her work...here's my card. So I fired him. Now we are both screwed. He's looking for a job and I'm looking for someone to do his.

and when those customers he's doing painting for would like some can lights, i suspect that he will accomodate that as well.....

 

[jumper]

and when those customers he's doing painting for would like some can lights, i suspect that he will accomodate that as well.....

Bingo.:happyyes:

 

[cadpoint]

I feel that a rule was broken and someone has to pay! There is no difference if the rules were verbal or in a handbook. The OP stated the rule; everyone has to live within these rules. The employee knew all this.
I’ve gotten into odd and near like situations in my life, I’m not proud of the results, I’ve paid dearly. I lived it and I believe I learned from them!

 

[fisherelectric]

Iwire...he was actually soliciting work from my contractor's clients...work that the contractor could have done. But here's the topper. Today, this morning, I got a call from a 25 year customer of mine that had hired his "painters" to paint her house. She came home and found them cleaning brushes in her sink. So she told them to go outside and clean them. Sure enough, they left the hose turned on and it froze and broke flooding part of her house and her crawl space. Of course he has no insurance. And this woman knows she hired him and not me. But what if it was the woman from the job on Friday? The first thing she would have done is call the contractor and say "I hired a man who was working for you and now my house is flooded". I have spent 30 years developing a good reputation. Spent thousands of dollars to keep myself straight with the IRS, the county, the insurance people. Never been to court once. Never lost a contractor's work except when I "fired" them. I don't need this guy handing out cards for his unlicensed, uninsured "business" on my jobs. Not to mention that I had told him to cease and desist. I have no problem with him being ambitious and trying to get ahead. I even told him to call my real estate connections and solicit their "handy man" work, because those people don't care about the anything but getting the work done so they can get to the settlement table. But when he risks causing me complications and problems with my livelihood there's no way I can or should put up with it.

 

[Jgreagori]

I have a guy working for me for 5 1/2 years. A little wild, but a good service man. Not scared of work, good attitude. I depend on him to do a lot of work that comes through the door. A lot of personal problems that sometimes affected his work, but it was getting better. He was also a good friend.
He started a handy man service, pressure washing, drywall, painting, etc and had some Hispanics he would hire out. I told him fine, just don't be running your business on my time....no phone calls etc. Then I found out he was soliciting my customers for his handy man services, including the contractors I work for. We do strictly residential. I told him I didn't think it was a good idea several times. Then I finally told him to stop. Leave my customers alone. I told him if he wanted to solicit the 3 or 4 real estate people we work for to do their house inspection punch lists fine, but otherwise leave my customers alone. Today we were working in a house for a contractor who has his own painters. The woman who owned the house showed up and was remarking about what a good job the painters were doing and she needed to get her personal house painted. So this guy pipes up and says he has painters and would love to do her work...here's my card. So I fired him. Now we are both screwed. He's looking for a job and I'm looking for someone to do his.

Tough call sure, but you gave the guy a chance to do the right thing and he was just disrespectful to you and your operation. You realy did the right thing and as contractors we are always faced with sometimes guiding our emplyees like children to do the right thing, but its not unconditional because it has to be our way or the highway. There are plenty of people looking for work, it just sucks to go through the process.

 

[GUNNING]

Give a moose a cookie...

Give a moose a cookie...

I had a really good gig working for a client. They had a handy man doing the regular stuff but would call me for the electric. One day we were talking and he was loading stuff up and out rolls a bunch of receptacles. He was putting in new receptacles in an ungrounded house. Wanted to know if I would come and check them out to make sure he was doing them ok. I was not asked to do much electrical after that.
Give a moose a cookie and he will want a glass of milk.

No, I draw the line on who has contact with my customers from my company and what they are authorized to do. I don't care after the job is done. But on my dime and my equipment and my labor and my lively hood, let them learn as I did. The hard way, and let me help with that. That way, there is no confusion.:rant:

 

[LEO2854]

Iwire...he was actually soliciting work from my contractor's clients...work that the contractor could have done. But here's the topper. Today, this morning, I got a call from a 25 year customer of mine that had hired his "painters" to paint her house. She came home and found them cleaning brushes in her sink. So she told them to go outside and clean them. Sure enough, they left the hose turned on and it froze and broke flooding part of her house and her crawl space. Of course he has no insurance. And this woman knows she hired him and not me. But what if it was the woman from the job on Friday? The first thing she would have done is call the contractor and say "I hired a man who was working for you and now my house is flooded". I have spent 30 years developing a good reputation. Spent thousands of dollars to keep myself straight with the IRS, the county, the insurance people. Never been to court once. Never lost a contractor's work except when I "fired" them. I don't need this guy handing out cards for his unlicensed, uninsured "business" on my jobs. Not to mention that I had told him to cease and desist. I have no problem with him being ambitious and trying to get ahead. I even told him to call my real estate connections and solicit their "handy man" work, because those people don't care about the anything but getting the work done so they can get to the settlement table. But when he risks causing me complications and problems with my livelihood there's no way I can or should put up with it.

You warned him and he ignored your request,So you made the right move.

 

[renosteinke]

Let's back off a bit, just for grins & giggles.

Suppose you had a valued electrician working for you, a man who was a drummer in a band. Electrician by day, musician by night.

Your customer mentions in passing that their daughter is getting married. Would you mind if the guy became the 'wedding singer?' Would you mind if he told folks about his 'other' gig?

I was listening to an interview with one of the members of "Van Halen." He spoke of the early days, when they would go to concerts by 'name' bands and put flyers on the windshiends of all the parked cars. No one ever felt Van Halen was trying to 'steal' customers from the 'name' bands.

x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x

At the other extreme .... I've personally witnessed firms that had part-time help, paid minimum wage, and would immediately fire anyone at the first hint that they had a second job. They had a 'policy' of not tolerating other employment. Other places, less honest, would accomplish much the same by juggling the work schedule at unpredictable intervals. A major retailer insists they have nothing against certain religions - it's just, by golly, pure happenstance that they occasionally require their warehouse folks to come in on Saturday. (Doubters can look up K-Mart and their litigation on this issue).

x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x

It seems to come down to trust - and respect. Put the shoe on the other foot .... how woud you respond if a GC attempted to restrict your business?

 

[GoldDigger]

I was listening to an interview with one of the members of "Van Halen." He spoke of the early days, when they would go to concerts by 'name' bands and put flyers on the windshiends of all the parked cars. No one ever felt Van Halen was trying to 'steal' customers from the 'name' bands.

But, on the other hand, they were not working for the club as valet parking attendants at the time.
And if they were the opening group, I would have not problem with what they did either, but the name band might.

 

[renosteinke]

Just to clarify: The interview described a period when Van Halen was a new band, with no bookings to speak of. The flyers were advertisments to concerts Van Halen would put on elsewhere. They were simply advertising themselves to what they saw as their target market.

I expect the name bands chuckled and said "yea, right, we'll never hear from these guys again!"

 

[GUNNING]

Its when the speakers are mysteriously blown and the mic's go missing and the cords get misplaced.

SOooo he used a box of drywall screws, to put up $800 of can lights that you did not have anything to do with but came out of your warehouse with those new LED lamps that were to go into that job next week.

Just for giggles....:slaphead:
I guess he could always hire you as a sub...