TR height requirement

Status
Not open for further replies.
76nemo

76nemo

Senior Member
Location
Ogdensburg, NY
I installed the first TR recep's today supplied by a contractor. I put in a GFCI and a load recep in a resi bathroom today, he supplied TR. TR's not required here yet, but raised an eye brow quickly. Even if they were required, is there anything that references height of receps and the requirement to TR???

I can see TR being required at 12-18", but at 48":confused: I haven't even looked at '08 yet. Is TR required even at that height???

Sorry for sounding silly, but '08 and TR are pretty far away here, and all green to me:roll:
 
No height requirement that I have heard of and I am not that far from you and 08 is in force in Brookhaven Township. Tr decoras down to 2 bucks a piece here not such a big deal as the arcfault stuff.
 
76nemo said:
My question was,...do recep's at that height REALLY need to be TR:confused: I initially meant by CODE,
Click to expand...

If it is a 15 or 20 amp 125 volt receptacle in any area addressed by 210.52 then it must be TR. There are no exceptions for height or any other reasons.


but geez, even at that height, do you agree with that???
Click to expand...

On the job it is not my place to agree or disagree. If you feel the rule goes to far then you need to put in a proposal to change it. :smile:
 
iwire said:
On the job it is not my place to agree or disagree. If you feel the rule goes to far then you need to put in a proposal to change it. :smile:
Click to expand...


A first step for many a proposal was to discuss it here :smile::)

As far as this particular rule there was much concern and discussion about TR receptacles ,.One issue was the elderly and the strength required ,.. in the end they dropped all concern. The NFPA web site has the ROP & ROC documents ,..kind of interesting to read them really.
 
76nemo said:
Even if they were required, is there anything that references height of receps and the requirement to TR???
Click to expand...


The Tr must be install, as mentioned, anywhere required by 210.52. This means that any recep. over 5'6" does not require TR.
 
Dennis Alwon said:
The Tr must be install, as mentioned, anywhere required by 210.52. This means that any recep. over 5'6" does not require TR.
Click to expand...

406.11 Says "In all areas specified in 210.52........" It does not say all receptacles required by 210.52

If it is an area mentioned (basically every where in a dwelling) in 210.52 and it is a 125v 15 or 20 amp receptacle it has to be TR. That's the way I see it anyway. :wink:
 
electricmanscott said:
406.11 Says "In all areas specified in 210.52........" It does not say all receptacles required by 210.52

If it is an area mentioned (basically every where in a dwelling) in 210.52 and it is a 125v 15 or 20 amp receptacle it has to be TR. That's the way I see it anyway. :wink:
Click to expand...


If that were the case why did they not say all dwelling unit recep. Obviously, I see this differently than you do. :smile:
 
Dennis Alwon said:
If that were the case why did they not say all dwelling unit recep.
Click to expand...

:D You must be new to the NEC :grin:

The reason they didn't just write in plain english is because it is written by a bunch of people who think they are so much smarter than everyone else and the way they proove it is by using lot's of words that when strung together actually make little sense. :cool:

I still think you're wrong. :grin:
 
TR requirements are defined by AREAS denoted in Section 210.52

TR requirements are defined by AREAS denoted in Section 210.52

My understanding is that Iwire has it correct when he stated:

?If it is a 15 or 20 amp 125 volt receptacle in any area addressed by 210.52 then it must be TR. There are no exceptions for height or any other reasons.?


Section 406.11 states that: In all areas specified in 210.52, all 125-volt, 15- and 20-ampere receptacles shall be listed tamper resistant receptacles.

Section 406.11 is asking for a list of ?areas? addressed in 210.52. Said receptacles in those ?areas? shall be tamperproof regardless of intended use and regardless of accessibility. There are no exclusions or exceptions to this requirement (as it is written in NEC language).


This means that ALL 15 or 20 amp 125 volt receptacles in:

Kitchens, Pantries, Breakfast rooms, Dining rooms and similar areas, Living rooms, Parlors, Libraries, Dens, Sunrooms, Bedrooms, Recreation rooms, & similar areas, Bathrooms, Outdoors, Balconies, Decks, Porches, Laundry Areas, Basements, Garages (attached or detached) , Hallways (...I think that is all of them ...)

?will require TR receptacles regardless of intended use and regardless of accessibility.


The way it is written, this means that for example: If a 125-volt, 15- and 20-ampere receptacle is installed behind the dishwasher it requires TR.

This has brought about much discussion as to the necessity of this requirement being so broad, such as the example I noted.

My understanding is that proposals have been made to the 2011 edition to limit the broad scope of this current requirement, but we will have to wait and see how this is acted upon ?

I hope this is helpful

mweaver
 
210.8(A)(2) is alive and well

210.8(A)(2) is alive and well

Actually, to be precise...

210.8(A)(2) still exists. The exceptions to this section were deleted and no longer exist in the 08 NEC.

The deletion means that ALL 15 or 20 amp 125 volt receptacles in "Garages, and also accessory buildings that have a floor located at or below grade level not intended as habitable rooms and limited to storage areas, work areas, and areas of similar use"

...require GFCI protection regardless of intended use and regardless of accessibility



Exceptions were also deleted from Section 210.8(A)(5) as well which eliminated any exclusion of GFCI protection for unfinished basements (other than permanently
installed fire alarm or burglar alarm system), as well.

...and the GFCI protected receptacle you mentioned for the door opener will require TR ...

...this is my understanding ...
mweaver
 
Last edited:
This whole discussion is rather moot to me simply because if I have to use TR recep. throughout the house I may as well use it everywhere. I am not going to run out to the truck to get a non TR for one or two recep.

My opinion is the garage door does not need TR but that is only my opinion. You can count on me using TR's everywhere.
 
Dennis Alwon said:
If that were the case why did they not say all dwelling unit recep. Obviously, I see this differently than you do. :smile:
Click to expand...


I see it just as Scott does, all areas 'mentioned' by 210.52, not all receptacles required by 210.52.

It says what it says in plain English and does not say what it does not say. :D
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top