TR Receptacles

[GerryB]

:happysad: Just did my first job that required the Tamper Resistant outlets as Ct just recently adopted the 2011 code. A stupid, politically correct type thing, in my opinion, but has anyone had problems with these? My 3-prong tester was extremely hard to plug in, non contact tester is worthless, and I didn't try a tester with leads but am wondering if they work. Maybe the brand tester, or the outlets. I can't complain about the price, my supply house carries Hubbell home select and a box of 10 was under $11, but I am waiting for a callback from customer or maybe inspector who has a problem.

 

[mjf]

Sometimes I've found one hard to plug into.....usually only the first time or two, then they seem to "loosen up".

 

[fmtjfw]

:happysad: Just did my first job that required the Tamper Resistant outlets as Ct just recently adopted the 2011 code. A stupid, politically correct type thing[0], in my opinion[1], but has anyone had problems with these? My 3-prong tester was extremely hard to plug in, non contact tester is worthless[2], and I didn't try a tester with leads but am wondering if they work. Maybe the brand tester, or the outlets. I can't complain about the price, my supply house carries Hubbell home select and a box of 10 was under $11, but I am waiting for a callback from customer or maybe inspector who has a problem.

[0] Each day nearly 7 children are treated in emergency rooms for shocks or burns associated with receptacles.[3] Preventing a few of these is the "politically correct" thing to do in my not so humble opinion.

[1] My 18 month old grandson has figured out how to pull out the previous version (flat plastic dummy plugs). He has not figured out how to push 2 separate items into TR receptacles at the same time yet.

[2] By design. The point is to keep the electricity from leaking out.

[3]http://www.esfi.org/index.cfm/page/Injury-and-Fatality-Statistics/pid/12015

 

[mgookin]

I have had trouble with power strips which have them. They need to come up with something better. I think the ADA will get on them because of the amount of force requisite to plug something in.

 

[fmtjfw]

I have had trouble with power strips which have them. They need to come up with something better. I think the ADA will get on them because of the amount of force requisite to plug something in.

Doesn't appear to be an ADA issue. After they have been used a couple of times they are generally easier to use. The force to open a door is generally limited to 5 pounds push or pull, but I can't recall any other push/pull pound limits.

ADA wants you to install the receptacles and switches in locations easily accessible from a wheelchair -- 15 to 48 inches AFF. 20 to 48 inches AFF is better. See Annex J in 2014 NEC

 

[cmaki]

I put them all over my house. my kids were younger when I put them in and HD had them cheaper than the non-TR versions. Over time they loosen up but never get really easy.

 

[mgookin]

Doesn't appear to be an ADA issue. After they have been used a couple of times they are generally easier to use. The force to open a door is generally limited to 5 pounds push or pull, but I can't recall any other push/pull pound limits.

...NEC

I think it's 7lbs to set it in motion and 5lbs to keep it in motion.

Then you have the 3 seconds minimum from 70 degrees so the door closer does not chop fingers off.

Do all that on a windy day at CO inspection and it drives the GC nuts! It can also be a challenge with rated doors to a stairwell in a highrise with mechanical ventilation.

Anyway, back to the subject at hand, once the ADA sees wheelchairs being pushed back and the plug still not going in because it takes more force to plug in the plug than it takes to keep the wheel chair stationary, it's going to come up. Also people bending in an awkward position and straining to plug something in can aggrivate an existing condition or even cause a new condition. Just something I foresee coming along one day. If it "loosens up" then maybe the manuf. will be required to "loosen it up" before it hits the market.

The objective is require more force and knowledge than a small child has, right? There must be a happy median in there somewhere.

 

[iwire]

They are here to stay.

 

[fmtjfw]

I think it's 7lbs to set it in motion and 5lbs to keep it in motion.

Then you have the 3 seconds minimum from 70 degrees so the door closer does not chop fingers off.

Do all that on a windy day at CO inspection and it drives the GC nuts! It can also be a challenge with rated doors to a stairwell in a highrise with mechanical ventilation.

Anyway, back to the subject at hand, once the ADA sees wheelchairs being pushed back and the plug still not going in because it takes more force to plug in the plug than it takes to keep the wheel chair stationary, it's going to come up. Also people bending in an awkward position and straining to plug something in can aggrivate an existing condition or even cause a new condition. Just something I foresee coming along one day. If it "loosens up" then maybe the manuf. will be required to "loosen it up" before it hits the market.

The objective is require more force and knowledge than a small child has, right? There must be a happy median in there somewhere.

There are two types of openings in a building - interior and exterior. Opening force requirements are critical to ensure that your opening is ADA compliant. Many disabled people have diminished strength; however, most can exert at least 5 lbf (pound force) in both pushing and pulling from a stationary position. The maximum opening force requirement for an interior, non-fire rated door is 5 lbs. For an exterior door, the compliant opening force is determined by the local authorities. This flexibility exists as environmental factors, such as wind and pressure differences, vary greatly by location. Many states have set the maximum opening force at 8.5 lbs. As of November 1, 2002, California adopted a maximum exterior opening force of 5 lbf. If the requirements in question can not be met, an automatic or power-assisted door must be provided.

To calculate force, measure 30 inches away from the hinge or to the centerline of the trim (whatever is greater). ADA law does not list instructions on how to measure the force of a door. The particulars can be found in ANSI A156.4-4.3, the standards for door closers.

The greatest obstacle to meeting opening force requirements is balancing efficiency and accessibility. Five pounds of opening force is equal to only three pounds of closing force (ANSI 156.4 says that all Grade 1 door closers must meet a 60% efficiency rating). So, sometimes when a door opens with less than 5 lbs. and you have positive pressure, weather-strip, or wind condition, the door may not close with sufficient power to latch the door.

Essentially, if a door is easy to open, it is easy to keep open. If adjusted properly, mechanical closers can meet ADA requirements without losing control.

http://www.dormae-learning.com/program2_part2.php

 

[fmtjfw]

I think it's 7lbs to set it in motion and 5lbs to keep it in motion.

Then you have the 3 seconds minimum from 70 degrees so the door closer does not chop fingers off.

Do all that on a windy day at CO inspection and it drives the GC nuts! It can also be a challenge with rated doors to a stairwell in a highrise with mechanical ventilation.

Anyway, back to the subject at hand, once the ADA sees wheelchairs being pushed back and the plug still not going in because it takes more force to plug in the plug than it takes to keep the wheel chair stationary, it's going to come up. Also people bending in an awkward position and straining to plug something in can aggrivate an existing condition or even cause a new condition. Just something I foresee coming along one day. If it "loosens up" then maybe the manuf. will be required to "loosen it up" before it hits the market.

The objective is require more force and knowledge than a small child has, right? There must be a happy median in there somewhere.

205 Operable Parts

205.1 General. Operable parts on accessible elements, accessible routes, and in accessible rooms and spaces shall comply with 309.

Advisory 205.1 General. Controls covered by 205.1 include, but are not limited to, light switches, circuit breakers, duplexes and other convenience receptacles, environmental and appliance controls, plumbing fixture controls, and security and intercom systems.

309 Operable Parts

309.4 Operation. Operable parts shall be operable with one hand and shall not require tight grasping, pinching, or twisting of the wrist. The force required to activate operable parts shall be 5 pounds (22.2 N) maximum.

http://www.ada.gov/regs2010/2010ADAStandards/2010ADAstandards.htm

The problem I see is that grasping is required to insert or remove a plug. Most of ADA is based on "Captain Hook's Hand", namely that you can operate an item if you have a hook as a hand, essentially no grasping. That is why door knobs that require twisting are verboten and door handles are required.

It is an interesting question. I've been unable to find a Google search string that brings up any problems with TR and ADA. I'm a Community Access Monitor trained by the Commonwealth of Massachusetts in the ADA and their broader "ADA" laws. I have an interest because my wife has had MS since the 1960's. I probably have her use a TR and see how that goes (expect success). Maybe I'll rig up something to measure the push force needed. My spring scale I use for door pull will serve as the pull measure.

As to force and TR, I think the design really depends on a lack of dexterity to be able to push two items at the same time. Depending on just force, I'm not so sure. The 18 month old grandson moves heavy dining room chairs at will.

 

[mgookin]

Back in the early 1990's when Florida got our first accessibility code I used a fishing scale - brass one with a marker which would produce a "max hold" that you would see on a digital meter today. I'd just hook it on the handle and pull.

What you call Cap't Hook we always called "closed fist".

Let us know how your test on TR goes.

 

[Knuckle Dragger]

:happysad: Just did my first job that required the Tamper Resistant outlets as Ct just recently adopted the 2011 code. A stupid, politically correct type thing, in my opinion, but has anyone had problems with these? My 3-prong tester was extremely hard to plug in, non contact tester is worthless, and I didn't try a tester with leads but am wondering if they work. Maybe the brand tester, or the outlets. I can't complain about the price, my supply house carries Hubbell home select and a box of 10 was under $11, but I am waiting for a callback from customer or maybe inspector who has a problem.

I have not had many call backs on them not functioning properly. In the beginning I would plug in a three prong tester in each receptacle to make sure the flappers opened up to allow good contact. I found that sometimes if a two prong plug was inserted at the slightest angle it could damage the flapper and not allow contact in the receptacle.
I agree they are not too pricey. I believe we have been installing them in Massachusetts since 2008.

Has anyone heard of any law suites against an electrical contractor who installed the TR receptacles properly and the customer still fell victim of getting shocked? Just wondering.

 

[GUNNING]

operator error

operator error

ok I have found that if you waggle the plug from side to side the flapper in a TR receptacle will give way. If you waggle up and down they do not give way. It is not a problem with the receptacles it is retraining of everyone on how to plug something in that is needed. Talk to the owner and show them the secret.
I think TR receptacles are one layer of bureaucracy in the way of evolution. There is a reason for Darwin Awards and if someone is not smart enough to keep there junk out of the wall socket they deserve to be removed from the gene pool. Putting flippers into sockets is dumbing down the population making everyone less cautious. I know it sounds a bit cruel and unnurturing but we are still living with the wild nature of the Earth and are still here.

Left right not up down.:slaphead:

 

[fmtjfw]

ok I have found that if you waggle the plug from side to side the flapper in a TR receptacle will give way. If you waggle up and down they do not give way. It is not a problem with the receptacles it is retraining of everyone on how to plug something in that is needed. Talk to the owner and show them the secret.
I think TR receptacles are one layer of bureaucracy in the way of evolution. There is a reason for Darwin Awards and if someone is not smart enough to keep there junk out of the wall socket they deserve to be removed from the gene pool. Putting flippers into sockets is dumbing down the population making everyone less cautious. I know it sounds a bit cruel and unnurturing but we are still living with the wild nature of the Earth and are still here.

Left right not up down.:slaphead:

I am a great believer in Darwin Awards. However I don't believe that you should be considered a candidate until just before puberty. Until then, you are not likely to contribute to the gene pool.

As a very small child my favorite form of electrocution was the old series christmas light string. When you removed a bulb you had the advantage of full voltage with the current limiting advantage of the other bulbs resistance. Further the socket was just about a perfect fit for my childish finger. And the other advantage was that the socket applied the current across a finger, not across the heart. I think we should bring these light strings back.

However, as to TR, to defeat them generally requires using two hands which may well place the current across the heart.

[When TR first came out and was being touted by the various manufacturers, they would pass out example outlets and a couple of "prongs". I got defeating it down to to less that 30 seconds, while carrying out a conversation.]

Later as a child and teenager, my dear departed father would train me to tolerate shocks using a Variac?. I guess the underlying idea is that I then wouldn't jump back and fall off the ladder if shocked in uncontrolled environments, who knows?