Track Lighting Troubleshoot

[euclid43]

I beauty salon has alternating low volt lights going out; occurs more frequent as of late.

I checked the wiring everywhere and it's good. I lessened the load, and it still goes out periodically.

These lights have a seperate transformer at the individual LV light (50w).

I changed the dimmer switch to 600w Luton.

Is there another proceedure I am missing? I am thinking on halving the load as a starting point, and just adding new lights periodically.

 

[raider1]

Are the low voltage lights listed to be used with a dimmer?

Also conversely is the dimmer listed to dim low voltage track lighting?

Chris

 

[euclid43]

Yes, the dimmers are listed for LV lighting. I've used these on several occasions.

The breaker isn't tripping.

Is the heat shut-off mechanism in the switch or the track. I can't imagine it being in the track.

The pull box I viewed has the neutral going to 8, 9, 11. That may be the issue.

 

[cadpoint]

How old is the salon? I?ve bet that?s it in a building with the minimum air charges, or the minimum air supplied to the volume of space. Dust and in this case elements can build up and create a path, or in this case burn up a transformer!

Is the entire plenum work intake?

Are the transformers like a door bell transformer, are the terminals exposed to open air, or are they self contained? Did you notice that the terminals where sticky?

Where are the transformers in respects to the booths or chair?s? Are they at the around the return grille?s?

Point being the stuff they put on hair to hold it, has metal properties, recall the movie legally blond, where the girl broke the case!

Run this by your AHJ.

I?m going to assume that the box holding the transformer is structurally secure and not placed against a fire rate gypsum board ceiling plenum, (ceiling grid and above a gypsum ceiling) that it is attached to some metal framing member! And not just floating above the ceiling!

If the transformers are exposed in the upper ceiling (a drop ceiling) I?d enlarge the box, four square to 4 11/16 (maybe even 6 x 6) that the transformer box is wired to use a minimum of two extension rings and turn the transformer inwards to the space of the box. You might even consider making the cover plate a platter and place the new box(s) with extension over it.

The smell of nail remover and hair conditioners (perm?s) drive me crazy, I know I couldn?t work in there I?d have to do the work after hours.

Good Luck.

 

[cowboyjwc]

Yes, the dimmers are listed for LV lighting. I've used these on several occasions.

The breaker isn't tripping.

Is the heat shut-off mechanism in the switch or the track. I can't imagine it being in the track.

The pull box I viewed has the neutral going to 8, 9, 11. That may be the issue.

I'm betting that the neutral phased wrong is a very good place to start since you have two circuits on the "B" phase.

 

[euclid43]

Each light has a twist into track transformer. Every other light is out, so it's a phase or switch issue.

Something is shutting this phase down, and I don't know if it's in the track or switch.

Any thoughts would be appreciated. I want to show my worth!

 

[euclid43]

8, 9, 11 is a black, red, blue.

I am wondering if it's ok to have 3 phases share a neutral in this case.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

When you say the dimmer is listed for LV I believe you but are the track heads electronic. I bet they are and would need an electronic lv dimmer.
The reason I say this is because you said you had a 600 watt dimmer. I believe if it is 600 watts then it is probably a magnetic dimmer as the electronic ones are generally 300 watts.

 

[cowboyjwc]

8, 9, 11 is a black, red, blue.

I am wondering if it's ok to have 3 phases share a neutral in this case.

It might be a black, red, blue, but if you put down the ckt numbers on a piece of paper it's red, red, blue. Circuits 8 & 9 are on the same phase.

 

[Article 90.1]

1 Black 2
3 Red 4
5 Blue 6
7 Black 8
9 Red 10
11 Blue 12

It sounds like you have 2 ckt. line voltage track. Check the end feed, especially if someone cut the track in the field. One of the phases of track rail may not be making a good connection with the end feed, or whatever feed you have. And if there is a 3 conductor cable down to the switch (switched Black, Switched Red, shared Neutral) the dimmer might not like sharing the neutral on the load side. Pound on the ceiling, or wherever the track is fed and see if the vibration makes one, or both circuits worth of lights flicker. If it is two ckt. track and the good ckt. is not overloaded, just spin the other track heads so that they will all use the same phase.

Do you have more info, or pictures?

Is this Halo, Juno, or "Commercial Electric" AKA home depot/Lowes garbage?

 

[e57]

Yes, the dimmers are listed for LV lighting. I've used these on several occasions.

The breaker isn't tripping.

Is the heat shut-off mechanism in the switch or the track. I can't imagine it being in the track.

The pull box I viewed has the neutral going to 8, 9, 11. That may be the issue.

Thinking out loud... 3 phase track - black red blue...

Black 8
9 Red
11 Blue
Neutral - fine.... If the track is rated for such.....


Imagine it being the track! :roll: While there may be a few connections of each of these phases and neutral in the boxes between the track feed and panel - there are also a number of track fittings that also make connection along the way to the lighting itself. It is not unheard of, and IMO quite common for poor connections in track fittings to over-heat, and arc - even act much like a thermostat turning lighting off and on. I have replaced lots of failed rack fittings in showrooms under heavy long term loads. Dont dismiss the bouncing ball on your way down the court....

The way to find this is if it is the track - to find the hot fittings while under load - use an IR thermometer. The ones that are very hot are resistive, and may occasionally become so resistive that they dim the lighting by way of voltage drop, or even open connection completely. Additionally failed lamping and transformer (Electronic or magnetic) can fail due to arcing or resistive connections on either the line or neutral side. Since you seem to say this seems to be limited to one phase/switch leg - I would focus on it.... What else you find along the way is a bonus for the problems that will happen down the road - a heavily loaded track will be plagued with them depending on age, skill of installation, and quality of track....

Good luck...

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Euclid- you need to help us out. Is this a 2 circuit track? It sounds like it. Do the same lights go out or different ones? Do you have to replace bulbs or does it come back on after time?

I have seen the tracks copper rails slide too far down that they are barely making contact in the adapter. Take out the track heads and take off the end cap. Use a thin screw driver and push the copper rails forward toward the connector (adapter). This will ensure good contact from the connector to the track.

 

[euclid43]

One of the phases of track rail may not be making a good connection with the end feed, or whatever feed you have. Do you have more info, or pictures?

Is this Halo, Juno, or "Commercial Electric" AKA home depot/Lowes garbage?

You are correct "Article 90.1"....the track had a bad connection at the end-cap. When I pulled it out and put it back in with power on, it worked!

Thanks for your geniusness.

 

[Article 90.1]

We all worked together, teamwork is dreamwork! Halo used to make a track cutting jig, that you used with your hacksaw. You would cut through the track, but it would stop you when you got to the track bus. Somehow it let you leave the track bus longer or shorter (I can't recall). Somebody here must have one of these, or at least a picture...

 

[Dennis Alwon]

We all worked together, teamwork is dreamwork! Halo used to make a track cutting jig, that you used with your hacksaw. You would cut through the track, but it would stop you when you got to the track bus. Somehow it let you leave the track bus longer or shorter (I can't recall). Somebody here must have one of these, or at least a picture...

I have 2 of those tools but you have to move the copper manually to cut it the right length.

 

[cowboyjwc]

1 Black 2
3 Red 4
5 Blue 6
7 Black 8
9 Red 10
11 Blue 12

It might be a black, red, blue, but if you put down the ckt numbers on a piece of paper it's red, red, blue. Circuits 8 & 9 are on the same phase.

OK I'm only going to say this one time, I was wr.......wro.......wrooo......I made a mistake, I miscounted.:roll:

 

[Article 90.1]

I have 2 of those tools but you have to move the copper manually to cut it the right length.

Dennis, can you post more info. on the track tool, I'd like to try to find one, and google turned up no results for me. Thanks!

Cowboy, I just wanted to make sure that I wasn't counting wrong, that's why I wrote it out. I'm wrong from time to time too, but it seems easier to say it in writing then in person...

 

[cowboyjwc]

Dennis, can you post more info. on the track tool, I'd like to try to find one, and google turned up no results for me. Thanks!

Cowboy, I just wanted to make sure that I wasn't counting wrong, that's why I wrote it out. I'm wrong from time to time too, but it seems easier to say it in writing then in person...

I even wrote it down too, must have skipped a number. What is it they say? The easiest way to eat crow, is while it's still warm. The colder it gets the harder it is to swallow.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Dennis, can you post more info. on the track tool, I'd like to try to find one, and google turned up no results for me. Thanks!

The tool is/was made by Halo. I cannot find it anywhere either. I did take a picture of mine and here it is. You lay the track in the opening and close done on it with the know in front. The grooves to the right is where the hack saw cuts the track. You have to push the copper rails up an inch or
so

Here are some instructions from Halo