Transfer Switch

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Rick 0920

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Jacksonville, FL
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Electrical Instructor
If you have a service-rated transfer switch with a main breaker between the meter and panel, if the panel is not MLO and has a 200A breaker installed, is bonding the neutral to the enclosure a code violation? The neutral is bonded at the transfer switch. Inspector turned the job down because the neutral was not bonded at the panel.
 
The neutral should only be bonded at the service disconnect in this case your transfer switch. From that point (the T/S) there should be an EGC to your panel and it should be boned to the panel.
Bonding the neutral beyond the service is a Code violation.
 
"No, the defense is wrong!"

The panel having a (now-redundant) main breaker vs main lugs has no bearing on the bonding question. The panel is now a sub-panel, and the neutral/EGC bond should not be made there.

The inspector expects a bond because there is a main breaker there, but it is not the main breaker.
 
The neutral should only be bonded at the service disconnect in this case your transfer switch. From that point (the T/S) there should be an EGC to your panel and it should be boned to the panel.
Bonding the neutral beyond the service is a Code violation.
That's what I thought Augie.
 
The neutral should only be bonded at the service disconnect in this case your transfer switch. From that point (the T/S) there should be an EGC to your panel and it should be boned to the panel.
Bonding the neutral beyond the service is a Code
The neutral should only be bonded at the service disconnect in this case your transfer switch. From that point (the T/S) there should be an EGC to your panel and it should be boned to the panel.
Bonding the neutral beyond the service is a Code violation.
This all seems very straightforward and logical. And my commercial electrician who installs our gensets at work agrees that neutral bonding is to be at the first main only. So, at my parents house I’m now confused. They remodeled their house in 2018. New service, entrance, load center and major wiring. Meter base is a Midwest 200A with main disconnect and 4 circuit load center at the garage end of the house. Bottom feeds into the crawlspace 12’ along the back garage wall and up into a 200A-42 ckt Homeline load center (with main breaker). I am in the process of installing them a 14 kW Generac. (Floating neutral). I’m doing the majority of the heavy lifting with conduit install, mounting ATS, gas pipe etc and licensed gas fitter and electricians will follow up to verify and have proper inspections made. My confusion is when I opened the panels to inspect, the neutral/EGC are fully bonded in the main service disconnect and in the load center. (EGC lug and neutral lugs are side by side on the neutral bus and green bonding screw is in place. Branch ckt neutrals/grounds are mixed in both bus bars on either side of mains. I was of course expecting to find the load center to have neutral floating and branch neutral/ground conductors separate. Green screw removed. I am Installing the 3R SE 200A ATS adjacent the load center, between it and the service entrance of course. Just prefer to keep it inside for better environmental instead of adjacent the meter base. I’ve spoken to the electrician who did the remodel who said to leave the EGC/neutral bonding conductor in the new ATS and not touch anything else and yet another electrician who says to remove the bonds in both the load center and the ATS even though it has a main. Keep the main in the meter base the main and only point of bonding. What gives here????
 
Welcome to the forum.

They remodeled their house in 2018. New service, entrance, load center and major wiring. Meter base is a Midwest 200A with main disconnect and 4 circuit load center at the garage end of the house. Bottom feeds into the crawlspace 12’ along the back garage wall and up into a 200A-42 ckt Homeline load center (with main breaker).

My confusion is when I opened the panels to inspect, the neutral/EGC are fully bonded in the main service disconnect and in the load center. (EGC lug and neutral lugs are side by side on the neutral bus and green bonding screw is in place. Branch ckt neutrals/grounds are mixed in both bus bars on either side of mains. I was of course expecting to find the load center to have neutral floating and branch neutral/ground conductors separate. Green screw removed.
If they correctly ran a 4-wire feeder, there is no reason/excuse for re-bonding the neutral and EGC.

I’ve spoken to the electrician who did the remodel who said to leave the EGC/neutral bonding conductor in the new ATS and not touch anything else and yet another electrician who says to remove the bonds in both the load center and the ATS even though it has a main. Keep the main in the meter base the main and only point of bonding. What gives here????
There is only one main disconnect, the first one after the meter, and this should be the last place bonding takes place. The rest are redundant (perfectly permissible) switches.

The presence of a redundant main in the ATS or the sub-panel does not change the fact that all of that downstream bonding should be removed.
 
Thank you all! You’ve certainly removed any doubt about this matter. What bothers me most is the pretty green stickers on our panels. I’ve always believed a layman should have a reasonable assurance that a state certified and local utility contracted inspector would not allow such a violation of the NEC. This is in KY. Could this be a local utility code exception for some reason? Or is is clearly an oversight by the electrician and inspector? I mean. If you look at the load center it’s going to be pretty involved to separate the neutrals and grounds since he paired them up. I mean I’ve seen quite a few panels on new jobs and remodels and they never were paired like this. Even in bonded panels they always put all grounds together and all neutrals together. Even if we weren’t going to install the transfer switch this would need to be done correct? Would it be better to just remove the bond in the meter/main? Maybe it’s time I just contact the original inspector and get his take. However, there is more to this that some might be very interested to know. A few years back, I bought a wood processing business and relocated it. Had new 480v service/distribution installed in an existing mfg. building. We operated equipment using motors from 7-1/2 to 40 hp. A local commercial electrician did the job. Installed a 400A 480v main disconnect flanked by 2, 200A QOB 60 circuit load centers. Thought all was good until one day a few weeks in a 30A breaker kept tripping out. Motor checked out fine, wiring fine, etc. So I head up to the supply house to get a new one. As the guy hands me a new one I could tell it was different and we discovered the one I was replacing was a 240V breaker. The electrician had installed 240V rated load center guts in both panels. Supply house guy doubted it and so did I but when I contacted the electrician he says, “ah yeah there’s really not a big problem. Just saving you a lot of money and it’ll work just fine. We’ve done it before with no issues”. Well, I’m not the ‘good ol boy’ type and that didn’t sit well. I immediately contacted the state inspector who informed me that under no circumstance should we operate until he was on site the next day. He brought in the local inspector and has a pow wow with him aside. Then explained how “sometimes” they get lax when working with regular electricians and things get missed. “Really?” You have one job, to make sure NEC is followed and to keep people safe yet you have inspectors this lazy?! He assured me the inspector would be dealt with and that either the electrician would have to rework it all or we could do what was necessary to switch to 240 Delta. That was quicker and the electrical paid someone else to rewire/upsize tie necessary circuits to make it work and we moved on. Now, years have gone by and I realize, the inspector that I now need to call is, guess who?
 
I meant to attach these and forgot. Thanks Larry!
 

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It was dumb to run the EGC and still connect the neutral and the EGC to the same point.

The previous electrician didn't understand. At least you already have a four-wire feeder.

You need to install a pair of EGC bus strips, relocate the EGCs, and remove the screw.
 
Just thought I should close this out with my latest findings. Anyone who cares about safety, policies and procedures as much as I do should be just as bewildered. Though I know it won’t be much of a shock to you. I made a couple of calls to Ky State inspectors who handle other counties. Not that I doubted for one second the outstanding advice I have gotten here. But you also understand due diligence within the state/precinct of which one is working. They both confirmed without a doubt this service is non compliant. The Midwest meter main panel is main. Bonding is there only and the transfer switch and load center after it is to be unbonded. Period. So I called the electrician who did it and played very dumb about it. Told him my “generator electrician” stopped by to inspect and found an issue of concern. Once i presented the scenario he quickly came clean and I could tell he was nervous. He immediately went into “well, your guy is NOT wrong but let me tell you how it came about”. He also went into saying, “I can assure you that’s not the only one in this town like that!” Lol. He recanted what had happened. You see, the load center upgrade came first during the interior remodel. At that time they had an older meter only base on the rear of the house feeding the correctly installed load center with bonding. A short time later my parents removed the old deck and built a sunroom that necessitated moving the service so that’s when the new meter main was installed at the end of the house. At that time, the electrician should have then corrected the bonding in the load center but just left it. And his buddy the local inspector simply stickered the new meter and didn’t even bother to go look at the load center. Why? Because they say it’s because it’s customer equipment and only service was involved. Lol. Ok. Yes it’s customer equipment. Always has been. But you didn’t forget to inspect it when it was installed as a bonded panel. Why wouldn’t you know/care to inspect it once it became part of a change in bonding?? Doesn’t take much brainpower to figure that one out. ANYWAY, per the electrician, why bother with calling the inspector since we don’t have to pull the meter??? They never involve an inspector unless they pull the meter. And per the city, they don’t require a permit for generator installs. Per the city electric provider, who has a strict rules of conduct about modifications to service or customer load that might impact them, they rely on the inspector to make it acceptable. Lol. You have GOT to be kidding me. A permanent backup generator with SE transfer switch is a SIGNIFICANT modification to a customers load side of their service. These city IDIOTS are missing out on a $75 permit fee. Hell if we wanted to relocate our privacy fence they would be all over that!! The inspector is missing out on an inspection fee. But what’s MOST important? These idiots are allowing shyster electricians and homeowners to “do their own thing” on the customer side and eliminating the possibility of finding sub standard/dangerous work to be performed. This makes zero sense to me. But I’m 56 years old and not surprised. I’m a lifelong Kentuckian. And there’s a lot of beauty and good folks in KY. But there’s always been jokes about KY/TN/VA rednecks and hillbillies and this is exactly why. I’m done. I’m going to complete this project per code and bring anything that I touch up to code. Don’t have to pull a permit. Don’t have to have an inspection wow. How easy. But I’ll still walk away worried about all those homeowners who aren’t like me.
 
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