travellers

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Re: travellers

I never,am just a dumb electrician ;) I use that line with some builders that have really confusing change orders.On page 1 is wp soffit receptacles but on page 3 is a switch for the same receptacles.Is it our job to decifer thier change orders ;) After drywall is 3 fold of before a stupid piece of gypsum is installed ;)
 
Re: travellers

I just love it when you're on the ball, and get something changed before it becomes a huge headache, and when the GC gets the bill he belittles the work done for the price.

I mentioned the bad location of an A/C (line set was popping out behind my service riser) about a month or two before the basement of a unit was drywalled. I kept hounding the GC to call the tinners and have them move it before the bsmt was finished, to avoid hassles. It was moved a day or two prior to drywall, and nobody told me. I drove by, happened to notice the condenser sitting there, and then the drywaller's truck sitting there. :roll:
 
Re: travellers

Originally posted by al hildenbrand:
Allenwayne,

I'm using very specific language in my hypothetical. </font>
  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">1" raceway</font>
  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">4 sets of travellers</font>
  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">One hot conductor</font>
  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">One neutral conductor</font>
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Note the absence of switch legs, and the absence of the wire that connects the commons of two threeways (Aside -- I don't know what the name of this common-to-common conductor is, but it definitely isn't a traveller).

My hypothetical is for basic threeway set ups, and it doesn't matter how the switches are fed or which end has the fixture, or if there are 4ways involved. . .

The question is, do I have more than nine or less than ten conductors in the raceway?

Do I, by the NEC, have to derate to 50% or 70%?
Click to expand...
Since only 1 of the travelers will be current carrying at a time, I would say 4 travelers, 1 hot, 1 neutral, for a total of 6 conductors. Derate of 70%.
 
Re: travellers

Originally posted by al hildenbrand:
Allenwayne,

I'm using very specific language in my hypothetical. </font>
  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">1" raceway</font>
  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">4 sets of travellers</font>
  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">One hot conductor</font>
  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">One neutral conductor</font>
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Note the absence of switch legs, and the absence of the wire that connects the commons of two threeways (Aside -- I don't know what the name of this common-to-common conductor is, but it definitely isn't a traveller).

My hypothetical is for basic threeway set ups, and it doesn't matter how the switches are fed or which end has the fixture, or if there are 4ways involved. . .

The question is, do I have more than nine or less than ten conductors in the raceway?

Do I, by the NEC, have to derate to 50% or 70%?
Click to expand...
I just came behind you, demo'd out your installation and installed LV relays at the panel and put in LV switches. Now there is no worrying about derating.

:D
 
Re: travellers

The following quote from the NEC 2002 handbook is worth noting.

"The factors in the second column of Table 310.15(B)(2)(a) are based on no diversity, meaning that ALL conductors in the raceway are loaded to their maximum rated load."
The use of the word ALL might reflect the intent of the code when considering the traveller issue.

None of the five exceptions in 310.15(B)(2)(a) restrict the exclusion of one traveller when derating.

Buck
 
Re: travellers

Well, I don't have the handbook, but I only see the mention of load diversity in an FPN. So that's not enforceable.

But I'm looking through what is specificly identified as "counted" and what is specificly identified as "not counted" as current carrying. And the list is simply incomplete.

I have a reference that says the neutral of a two wire ciruit is counted but it doesn't site a code and I can't find it mentioned in 310.15(anything).

So I'm gonna say that whatever isn't specificly identified one way or the other would have to be an AHJ call.

Am I not seeing everything? Because I don't even see where it says I have to count an ungrounded conductor.

This is unusual, is the NEC letting us decide for ourselves what carries current?

Current carrying simply isn't defined. There are only specific examples.
 
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