tri-plex in conduit
- Thread starter linwue
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linwue said:
I pass about 5 inspections everyday with USE in conduit installations. Overhead or underground makes no difference. The only thing to keep in mind is that some inspectors will balk at USE coming into the building, even if it's just a few feet "inside nearest the point of entrance" 230.70(A)(1).
I don't see the big deal in worrying about a couple feet inside but some inspectors draw the line. There's one in my department that fails inspections for that reason. If you have a meter outside on the building and a main disconnect inside, run THHN from the meter to the main just incase you get an inspector like that.
As far as "triplex" goes, are you talking about the stuff with the steel messenger ? I've never seen anybody try to put that in a conduit before.
That same inspector that fails the USE that peeks inside, has also said that triplex has no UL listing of any kind and can only be used by the power company. He fails any contractor that uses it for anything.
I've been meaning to find out if he's right. If he is, then the stuff is installed illegally all over the place in my area in Ohio. Everybody uses it on overheads whether they're with the power company or not.
Anybody know about triplex listing ?
David
LarryFine
Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
- Location
- Henrico County, VA
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
Ask him what should be used for an overhead run to a separate building.dnem said:
Minuteman
Senior Member
- Location
- The Sooner Nation
I know that our inspectors will not pass a riser (or mast) that has a bare neutral.
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Journeyman Electrician
Minuteman said:
What Article do they cite?
jeff43222
Senior Member
- Location
- Minneapolis, Minnesota
The last time I looked at triplex up close, the markings on it were that it was type "MX" cable or something like that. Whatever it was, it wasn't listed anywhere in the NEC.
- Location
- Massachusetts
LarryFine said:
That is not the inspectors job to tell us how to do our job.
Typical triplex is not listed and is not marked at all, it creates a number of violations when used for NEC installations.
Have I used it?
Yes.
Minuteman
Senior Member
- Location
- The Sooner Nation
infinity said:
Well Trevor, to be honest, I didn't ask. The last time that came up was a while back and before I found Mike Holt and I learned to challenge the Authority of The Authority Having Jurisdiction. So, unless I had already known otherwise, I used just follow like a sheep...
baa!
LarryFine
Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
- Location
- Henrico County, VA
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
It's also not his jobto be so evasive as to repeatedly say "Failed; try again." so we don't have to try several times.iwire said:That is not the inspectors job to tell us how to do our job.
Mayhaps I should have said "What would he deem acceptable?"
Last edited:
- Location
- Massachusetts
LarryFine said:
Larry I don't understand.
It is not the inspectors job and to explain how the work should be done.
IMO they are going out on a limb if they are doing much more than hinting what they would like to see.
As far as violations that could prevent the use of typical triplex here are a few.
110.8
310.8(C)
310.11
310.13
It is just one of those commonly done things that really does not meet code.
LarryFine said:Ask him what should be used for an overhead run to a separate building.
iwire said:That is not the inspectors job to tell us how to do our job.
LarryFine said:
Larry is right that us inspectors shouldn?t repeatedly say, ?Failed, try again?.
Altho we shouldn?t be telling anybody how the work should be done, we should be able to answer simple questions about ?deciding on approval of equipment and materials? [90.4]
I should be able to answer the question, ?What would you deem acceptable ?"
The problem is that I can?t answer that question when the subject turns to triplex. As the inspector, I need to know the answer but I don?t.
David
kingpb
Senior Member
- Location
- SE USA as far as you can go
- Occupation
- Engineer, Registered
Maybe someone can answer this, if it's off topic I will start a new one.
Here in xxx, FL (name removed to avoid conflict) the local utility is running SE cable, attaching it directly to the house, on the way to the meter. then the Contractor is being allowed to run SE, attached to the house, no conduit or protection, to go from the meter base to the panel, located somewhere inside the residence.
I have seen where they attach the overhead conductors to the back of the house, off the ally, then run SE cable under the eaves, and around to the side of the house into the meter.
What article(s) in the NEC are allowing this? I have a hard time believing that this is deemed acceptable, having exposed "Romex" essentially, and yet they are going to require AFCI for every circuit in a house? Where is the logic. These are 100A circuits we are talking about.
Alright, someone please splane..................
Here in xxx, FL (name removed to avoid conflict) the local utility is running SE cable, attaching it directly to the house, on the way to the meter. then the Contractor is being allowed to run SE, attached to the house, no conduit or protection, to go from the meter base to the panel, located somewhere inside the residence.
I have seen where they attach the overhead conductors to the back of the house, off the ally, then run SE cable under the eaves, and around to the side of the house into the meter.
What article(s) in the NEC are allowing this? I have a hard time believing that this is deemed acceptable, having exposed "Romex" essentially, and yet they are going to require AFCI for every circuit in a house? Where is the logic. These are 100A circuits we are talking about.
Alright, someone please splane..................
kingpb said:
SE cable is just what the initials imply...Service Entry Cable.
Down south, you will see a lot of installations like you describe.
I assume that you're talking about SE cable that has 2 insulated conductors with a bare grounded conductor spirally wound around them and a gray plastic overall covering.
Read Article 338 in the NEC.
This is a code compliant way to install a Service entry.
Where I live, you can only go 6' into the house before you hit the main disconnect regardless of what type of Service entry cable you use.
The installation must be in accordance with Part 1 of Article 225
The service entry on my own home is wired using SE cable. 12' Down the outside wall to the meter base, and then on to the Main Panel. It's been there for 30 years, and still looks good and I've never had a problem with it.
Turning a corner with SE cable is OK as long as the bending radius complies with 338.24 and the cable is supported according to 334.30
steve
iwire said:That is not the inspectors job to tell us how to do our job.
Typical triplex is not listed and is not marked at all, it creates a number of violations when used for NEC installations.
Have I used it?
Yes.
iwire...I know that we've had this discussion before about "Triplex" cable.
So, just to clarify for the readers, down south (USA), what we call "Triplex" cable is 3 spirally wound conductors with each conductor having a X linked polyethylene outer covering. It is rated USE or USE-2 and has a cross rating of RHH (I think that's the correct rating), anyway it's cross rated to allow use inside a building.
The service drop cable that the POCO uses is 2 insulated and one bare conductors, also spirally wound. I have no idea what the rating is. It's just called "service drop cable" around here.
If you do a web search for "Southwire" you will find a company that produces the Triplex cable that I describe. I don't know if "Triplex" is a trademark name or not.
So anyway, around here, the OP could run "Triplex" in conduit or direct buried, inside or outside.
steve
kingpb said:
Up north in Ohio it's the same thing. 70 to 80 % of all services are SE without conduit protection. The only place the SE can't be run openly is where it is subject to vehicle damage such as areas where a driveway comes right up along side of a section of the house and the service conductors are run in that area.
David
Minuteman
Senior Member
- Location
- The Sooner Nation
That sheds some light on my misunderstanding. Around here we call the service drop cable that the POCO uses with the 2 insulated Aluminum and one bare conductors, "triplex". The underground we use is type URD.hillbilly said:
kingpb
Senior Member
- Location
- SE USA as far as you can go
- Occupation
- Engineer, Registered
dnem said:
Since you are an inspector, could you please provide me the specific references in the code that allow this?
I went back to 1993 Handbook and see that it was allowed at that time. But according to NEC 2005, I interpret all references to SE cable, that it is no longer allowed to be run that way. I need justification, Thanks.
Dennis Franklin
Member
Riser Applications, inna desert SW ( New Mexico)
Riser Applications, inna desert SW ( New Mexico)
Riser Applications, inna desert SW ( New Mexico)
Hi, guess I should add my two pesos worth here, we have a local utility that asked me if triplex was ok in a riser, I said, " I dunno" he was satisfied, and made the connection... But the price of Copper wire has gone up so high,that small pieces of URD, and triplex laying around that would make riser wire, are really looking good right now, and I'm tempted to try.... Knowing our local inspectors, Im sure this will cause havoc, had the "CHEEF" inspector give me a corrections notice for not forming a drip loop in the feeders extending from a weatherhead, an item the utility does when they make the hook-up. Wonder what he would have done if the riser had URD or USE or triplex in it???? If we could get a determination, sure would save some cash on the installation, and give us a use for the left over small pieces of service wires we all have laying around.... Dennis in NMLarryFine said:
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