tripping afic

[ceb]

I have a second call back due to a tripping afci breaker. the first time I checked all recpt. and found nothing wrong so I changed out breaker thinking it may be a nussent trip situation, breaker did fine for couple of weeks not it will trip every two to three days

 

[ceb]

Re: tripping afic

Sorry hit wrong button before I was through.
This is a job I took over after the elect. got sick and could not complete. my only thought on the breaker tripping is there are three motion detector lights under the soffit wired in on this circuit. any other thoughts?

 

[roger]

Re: tripping afic

This is a ploy by the AFCI advocates. They are manufactured so that 1 in x number will do this so we think they are really functional. In reality you should be playing the lottery because the chance of one residence having two of these (told you they worked units) installed, is mega million to one.

Actually I don't have an answer, but then again.

Roger

 

[ryan_618]

Re: tripping afic

I don't have any experience with AFCI's, but as this is a call back, I'm assuming the house is occuppied. With that in mind, have you found out what appliances may be in use when the circuit opens? If it only happens once every couple of weeks, perhaps a vaccum is the culprit?

 

[jimwalker]

Re: tripping afic

Have not yet needed to deal with any that trip.I was warned by a local inspector that the cheap 50 cent switches could cause problems

 

[templdl]

Re: tripping afic

Check for a neutral to ground contact in the branch circuit. Since part of the design of the AFCI is ground fault sensing in the 30ma area should the equipment grounding conductor come into contact with the neutral somewhere in the circuit the neutral current will be shared with the equipment grounding conductor which the AFCI will interpret as a ground fault and trip.
What I advise electricians to do in an attempt to trouble shoot this problem is to assure that all loads are disconnected in that branch circuit, to shut off the breaker, remove the grounding conductor from the neutral bar and the neutral from the breaker.
Then measure the resistance between the grounding conductor and the neutral. It should show an open circuit or an infinite resistance.
If not the grounding conductor and neutral have come into contact with each other.
If so, check to see if a grounding wire may have folded back in such a way that it has come into contact with the neutral screw of an outlet.
If you have confirmed that this isn't the problem than it is either a connected load or an AFCI problem.

 

[ceb]

Re: tripping afic

Templdl, I agree with your method of checking the circuit however this breaker only trips every two or three days. What i am wondering is about the three motion detector lights that are on this circuit. this is the second afci breaker I have installed and it is not a cheap one sq D

 

[alex winkler]

Re: tripping afic

How is an electrician to know if it is nuisance tripping or if it has actually detected an arc? Sooner or later you know one of these things is really going to work. Then how will we trouble shoot that?

 

[luke warmwater]

Re: tripping afic

ceb,
did you install the wiring or the motion detector lights?
And did you remove them and inspect the wiring and connections at each?
It is a known fact by me and some others nearby that a local electrical contractor adds things such as a garage door opener receptacle after a house is wired because he does not include this as a standard item. He jumps out of the garage light with a 14/2 to make the receptacle work.
But how? The light was ran from the switch with a 14/2.
That's right, he uses the black to switch the light, the white as a hot from the switch box for the receptacle, and the bare ground is now his neutral(grounded conductor).
I don't know if this is your problem, but a wire that is pinched too hard can also trip the AFCI breaker. I would check the lights also.

 

[hurk27]

Re: tripping afic

I have now had 6 AFCI's that tripped from a Duo hummer style fan control. when the fan control is in between speeds it trips the AFCI breaker but only does it sometimes. Just a thought.

 

[bigjohn67]

Re: tripping afic

my question to manufacturers of end user products is: Are your products AFCI compiant?
These devices seem to be causing headaches for many. We are combatting this trouble by wiring one room to a circuit only. That way you can limit the trouble to just one room.
We recently had a call back. AFCI all of a sudden started tripping. It ended up being a newly purchased clock radio causing the trouble. Go figure. Have not had a lick of trouble since the radio is not used.
Are your products AFCI compliant? We have to ask.

 

[tonyi]

Re: tripping afic

FWIW, my Sawzall will trip a QO AFCI when its operated at real slow speed. I've used it on plenty of ordinary GFCI, and its only a two prong saw anyway, so I doubt this is a GF trip.

I've had inspectors tell me about vacume trips on AFCI, but I've never seen it (usually I'm putting in Cutlers most the time)

 

[jimwalker]

Re: tripping afic

When i first heard of afci i had my doughts about them,remembered all to well the original gfci.Maybe they need to be an option.Local AHJ could over ride them being required.
Just how will this set with customers when they get a bill for 2 hours to run it down to a radio.

 

[kripton]

Re: tripping afic

I had a similar problem in a one bedroom apartment, the bedroom fixture, will short out after the lamp was on for several hours.

 

[jimwalker]

Re: tripping afic

That could be a butt kicker if you supplied the fixture.Mfg will say sorry here is a replacement.Labor? ohhh we only warranty the fixture.Mean while you lost a half day.

 

[harley]

Re: tripping afic

AFCI nuisance tripping after an installation period can be difficult to find. First, ask the customer if they turned on an appliance(ceiling fan, lights, sweeper, power saw) do not limit your question to just the AFCI circuit but anywhere in the home. Also, ask if any electrical storm @ that time or if loss of power in neighborhood. If their is surge strips on any circuit(computers) the MOVs are designed to shunt current (L to G),(N to G) if more than 30ma (CH AFCIs) breaker will trip. Both devices are doing their job but after time and cheap surge protectors MOVs may get leaky and cause nuisance trips. Also, power quality is a concern for a new neighborhood had AFCIs trip the same time of day in 5 homes. All homes had computers in bedroom with surge strips and the utility had a problem with a network protector causing spikes on line. The utility did not know they had a problem.
I highly recommend calling manuf help lines for if their is a load tripping their AFCI they want to know for it is hard to test every electrical device on market and future devices.