Tripping Device?

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jmellc

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Location
Durham, NC
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Facility Maintenance Tech. Licensed Electrician
Just did a project in one of our large offices, an area that has been reinvented countless times. Many labels incorrect, some receptacles not labeled at all, etc. I found a few circuits with our Klein tracer, model ET-300. Others would not respond with it at all and 1 gave signal at another panel. So, I had to hunt and peck, plus work at times when fewer people were in the office, etc. Found a few by killing random breakers then checking back and forth. Slow and tedious but mostly worked. I also tried overloading a particular receptacle with 3 microwaves and 2 space heaters to get it to trip. Would not trip. I had a glass of water in each MW, running a full minute, then 2 minutes. Maybe the MW senses needing less power for this than a plate of food? So, back to hunt and peck, more guesswork. I finally got it but I hated it taking so long.

Is there a factory made device out there for tripping circuits? Yes, I have done the trip wire thing many times in the past but can't do it here and now. Could I make a device with a row of resistors and/or fuses that would quietly trip a breaker? I know I could make something but not sure it it would create a smell. Also how high amperage would I need not to burn up the device? I have seen a 60 amp breaker trip along with a 20 amp breaker downline.

I hate to have to think of all this. Good labeling and updating over the years would simplify such things.
 
I should have added a smirk for the ring. :sneaky:

If two heaters and three MWs didn't do it, a direct short may be the only option.
 
Maybe if you trip wired it at the same time that you were drawing a lot of current.
Would that make it quieter without creating much smell?

Or open a fresh container of ground coffee just before you trip it, that might mask the smell.

maybe a heat gun
 
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You probably have some circuits paralleled somewhere. That’s why the circuit tracer doesn’t find them. The parallel path splits the tracers signal. So now instead of 20 amps, it takes 40 + amps, probably actually 60+ amps to trip the breakers. With a higher end tracer, you could probably find the breakers.
 
I would not recommend that method for finding circuits for identification. You creating a bolted fault or a ground fault depending on you do it. I would find another method.
The high amount of fault current may cause more issues and poses a safety issue. It would be like holding a fire cracker in your hand making a fist.
Please find another way.
 
More space heaters?

Screenshot 2023-09-01 082148.png

BTW $9.99 is a great price. They are like 25 in Walmart

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Use/rig up some oscillating load and check breakers with ammeter and look for that oscillating pattern.

Consider that more than one circuit on same "phase" may be interconnected and it will take shutting off more than one breaker to open the circuit which may be a reason you can't get anything to trip with heavy loading?
 
hillbilly1 said:
You probably have some circuits paralleled somewhere. That’s why the circuit tracer doesn’t find them. The parallel path splits the tracers signal. So now instead of 20 amps, it takes 40 + amps, probably actually 60+ amps to trip the breakers. With a higher end tracer, you could probably find the breakers.
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Good thought, nothing would surprise me. However, I did eventually find all circuits by hunt and peck, back and forth to panel many times. I never had to kill 2 breakers to kill a circuit. So that is not the case with these particular ones. But your thought will be fresh in my mind on the next search & destroy mission. I've seen many of the ways things can be misfed here, as the buildings have been reinvented so many times. Most of the new work way back was done very well but too many midnight rush jobs and right now repairs turned much of it into a quagmire.
 
kwired said:
Use/rig up some oscillating load and check breakers with ammeter and look for that oscillating pattern.

Consider that more than one circuit on same "phase" may be interconnected and it will take shutting off more than one breaker to open the circuit which may be a reason you can't get anything to trip with heavy loading?
Click to expand...
Not in this case, as I eventually found them but your thought is valid. See my response to Hillbilly 1.
 
Haven't done it, but have considered using one of those Edison bulb disc flashers to turn a 100W bulb on and off and then use a clamp on amp meter to trace it. In particular, I considered doing this aboard ships when there was a ground fault. Ships have ungrounded systems.

1693653609279.png

Then there is the "Shorting Box", a heavy duty switch in a box with alligator leads. Used that one time in a plant where a contractor came across some exposed live wires in an overhead and we couldn't figure out which breaker. Did not trip anything upstream.
 
I always had good luck with an older version of the Greenlee CS-8000 tracer, but much more expensive than the one you are using. Was even able to identify the 480 volt feeder breaker for a 480/208Y/120 transformer by connecting to a branch circuit on the secondary side of the transformer a number of time.
 
Not used the ET-300, but I have the Klein ET-450. It is ok, but still requires a lot of guessing. Even so, it does save time and reduce disruptions. It does help locate buried stuff. Recently located a buried box in a room in the house I recently bought that had some jenky handyman stuff. Random trips...took the whole room apart, multiple circuits in several boxes, some MW. Neutrals from different circuits tied together. One circuit hot tied to another circuit hot. Had the whole room unwound and knew there had to be something buried somewhere.
 
Best I've used is the vintage Amprobe CT-326-C Current Tracer. To top Don's experience, I traced from 120V through a 480 xfrm through a 4160 xfrm. Had a situation with a dead receptacle and no breaker handle tripped. Used a battery to create a current loop on the neutral back to ground and traced it to the correct panelboard. In the panel, found that the hot was not hot. The breaker was actually tripped, but the handle hadn't moved to the tripped position!

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