trouble finding good LED recessed

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electrofelon

electrofelon

Senior Member
Location
Cherry Valley NY, Seattle, WA
LED recessed stuff has been driving me crazy lately. What do y'all use? Here is what I want:

1) Dims well
2) no buzz or hum whatsoever and no fine print BS after the approved dimmer list saying "all approved dimmers may not work, try another if performance is not satisfactory"
3) non proprietary/non all in one trim/bulb unit. I hate having to replace a whole trim just seems like a waste and added expense, and more importantly will probably be impossible to get a matching one in a year or two or less even.

At this point because we are still apparently in the "wild west" phase of LED's, for larger size housings I prefer standard A base units with a LED bulb. This way Im not screwed if it doesnt work well - we can just try a different bulb. For smaller housings it seems to be a little more tricky. A year ago I used some lithonia 3" units that I really liked mainly because they came with a LED mr16 bulb which will always be available. Now it seems they are making them with a one piece trim/bulb unit which I wont be able to get next year when they start dying (assuming). Any suggestions?
 
Electric-Light

Electric-Light

Senior Member
electrofelon said:
LED recessed stuff has been driving me crazy lately. What do y'all use? Here is what I want:

1) Dims well
2) no buzz or hum whatsoever and no fine print BS after the approved dimmer list saying "all approved dimmers may not work, try another if performance is not satisfactory"
3) non proprietary/non all in one trim/bulb unit. I hate having to replace a whole trim just seems like a waste and added expense, and more importantly will probably be impossible to get a matching one in a year or two or less even.
Click to expand...

1) You'd have to get on the same page with the customer on the definition of "well". Many LED "bulbs" are limited to about 30-40% visible brightness on low end and since it's an exponential relation, further reduction does not yield much energy savings. Many LED light bulbs are in this range. 30-40% perceived means 9-16% measured light level. Another thing is dimming curve. That is, how slider position corresponds to perceived light output. Incandescent lamps are roughly the same between different types. "LEDs" are not. If you put two different lol LED bulb lamps side by side and feed from the same dimmer, they can behave quite differently.


2) this is a tough one. Some production lot of CREE CR6 buzzed noticeably, some didn't, but no official change in specifications.

For more LED ish problem concerns have a look at this:
http://www.ies.org/lda/HotTopics/LED/20.cfm
 
Fulthrotl

Fulthrotl

~Autocorrect is My Worst Enema.~
Location
HB, CA (19 Hrs. 22 Min. from Winged Horses)
Occupation
E
electrofelon said:
LED recessed stuff has been driving me crazy lately. What do y'all use? Here is what I want:

1) Dims well
2) no buzz or hum whatsoever and no fine print BS after the approved dimmer list saying "all approved dimmers may not work, try another if performance is not satisfactory"
3) non proprietary/non all in one trim/bulb unit. I hate having to replace a whole trim just seems like a waste and added expense, and more importantly will probably be impossible to get a matching one in a year or two or less even.

At this point because we are still apparently in the "wild west" phase of LED's, for larger size housings I prefer standard A base units with a LED bulb. This way Im not screwed if it doesnt work well - we can just try a different bulb. For smaller housings it seems to be a little more tricky. A year ago I used some lithonia 3" units that I really liked mainly because they came with a LED mr16 bulb which will always be available. Now it seems they are making them with a one piece trim/bulb unit which I wont be able to get next year when they start dying (assuming). Any suggestions?
Click to expand...

i currently have about 50 of these in my house.....
while they don't meet all of your criteria, they meet all of mine... :p

commercial grade.

LED element is fully dimmable, and bayonet mounts on a wide variety of
trims, so you can have 4", 5" and 6" cans with the same light element,
and the same light qualities. i had 5 and 6" cans in my house, and added
the rest in 4" IC rated cans, with trims that all look alike except for the size, obviously.

trims are die cast, commercial grade.

no humming.

used lutron led rated dimmers, my cost about $22 each if memory serves.

you can get 700 and 1100 lumen outputs, in half a dozen different color temps.
700 is all you need in normal height ceilings. i put four of the 1100 lumen units
in the kitchen, it was overkill.

seriously, i haven't seen anything better. that's why they are in my house.
 
D

dallen789

New member
i currently have about 50 of these in my house.....

i currently have about 50 of these in my house.....

Which is?
 
electrofelon

electrofelon

Senior Member
Location
Cherry Valley NY, Seattle, WA
Fulthrotl said:
i currently have about 50 of these in my house.....
while they don't meet all of your criteria, they meet all of mine... :p

commercial grade.

LED element is fully dimmable, and bayonet mounts on a wide variety of
trims, so you can have 4", 5" and 6" cans with the same light element,
and the same light qualities. i had 5 and 6" cans in my house, and added
the rest in 4" IC rated cans, with trims that all look alike except for the size, obviously.

trims are die cast, commercial grade.

no humming.

used lutron led rated dimmers, my cost about $22 each if memory serves.

you can get 700 and 1100 lumen outputs, in half a dozen different color temps.
700 is all you need in normal height ceilings. i put four of the 1100 lumen units
in the kitchen, it was overkill.

seriously, i haven't seen anything better. that's why they are in my house.
Click to expand...

think you forgot the link?

Thanks for the other suggestions, Ill take a look.

Hey electric-light, I think everyone wants to know: what do you use in YOUR house??? ;)
 
Electric-Light

Electric-Light

Senior Member
electrofelon said:
Hey electric-light, I think everyone wants to know: what do you use in YOUR house??? ;)
Click to expand...

Incandescent when it's got to be dimmable. Got a dimmable fluorescent in the kitchen that dim better than pretty much all LED products and certainly less inadequate dimming performance than Cree A bulbs.

I'm pretty sensitive to buzzing. Most people are and it's a huge point of objection for dimmable lamps. Getting a smooth 1-100% dimming with no perceivable noise to non geriatric population in a quiet room room is very difficult to accomplish.
 
D

DTLight

Member
Location
Mesa AZ
I installed Halo units in my kitchen and hallways couple years ago. I wanted silent dimming, trim options other than baffle, compatibility with the Insteon dimmers I was installing in the house, and CRI of at least 90. It tried Juno, and they buzzed somewhat.

http://www.cooperindustries.com/con...modules/_821431.brands.lighting!halo!led.html

I'm dimming them with Insteon dimmers, and they dim down to a guestimated 5% or so. If you are using computerized dimmers with longer ramp times, the fixtures do not "light up" simultaneously.

Additionally I have found Phillips DiamondSpark dim well to low levels with the Insteon dimmers if you are looking for ceiling fan lamp options.

http://www.bulbs.com/espec.aspx?ID=...0i52uQvaB3efSOT5_YQaE9m7FYkzTiP8lRBoC5Bjw_wcB
 
Electric-Light

Electric-Light

Senior Member
Based on empirical evidence, I have found the Cree CR6 to be hit and miss and so so at best.
http://www.cree.com/Lighting/Products/Indoor/Downlights-US/CR-Series#

The first one I have is an older lot which you can identify by three screws from the base side. This product produces a noticeable pulsation in light with a standard Lutron dimmer I have tested at some range. It required the use of special dimmer designated for LED/CFL called Lutron C-L. In my subjective evaluation, acoustic noise (buzzing sound) while dimmed is unacceptable.

Two samples from the newer (than above...) production lot I have tested seem to have less acoustic noise while dimmed, but there's a buzzing at full output without dimmer that I can hear in a quiet room from 10 feet away. The production cost appear to have been lowered and the light output has increased flicker index and produces more stroboscopic effect with moving objects both at full output and dimmed position but the symptoms are worse in dimmed settings.

Depth of dimming is better than their A19 lamps however the presence of fairly high flicker index on newer model and excessive acoustic noise on the older model gave me an impression that their dimming performance is inadequate relative to Lutron Electronics TuWire dimmable electronic fluorescent ballast system.

I have not tested their BR30, however it appears to be identical to their A19 bulb except for the glass globe and if the circuits are just like A19, the dimming is inadequate in my opinion. CREE A19 40W, 60W TW high CRI and A19 18W 100W equivalent Cree LED lamp light bulb only dims to perceived level of 40% or so. The glass is coated to prevent scattering of splinters in the event of breakage, but it will break nonetheless if it is dropped, or the globe loosens and fall out which have been known to occur with this brand's product. The quality control is ehh.
 
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