Trouble shooting smoke detectors residental

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Chris Simms

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Cohutta GA
How would you go about trying to troubleshoot smoke detectors in a house when they all just start going off in the middle of the night? Several times I have gotten phone calls to check out these smoke detectors and the 1st thing I do is replace ALL the batteries but sometimes they keep giving a false alarm. Also I can replace all the batteries and 1 will continue to chirp.
Any suggestions? Are any smokes more reliable that another?
Chris
 
Chris Simms said:
How would you go about trying to troubleshoot smoke detectors in a house
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One minor point most homes have smoke alarms not smoke detectors.

If I was sure they all had 120 VAC power, they all had good batteries and they still chirped or otherwised acted odd I would replace them all.

Smokes alarms are supposed to be replaced every 10 years anyway.
 
Coming in from Left Field ...

Coming in from Left Field ...

Are these smokes wired together into a comm panel. Did you completely power it off?

Most modern circuits with I/o I/c I forget exactly which one. Like your computer have chips that retain there charge for a few seconds 5 up to ten seconds, before they release there charge. Most everyone has totally de-powered / disconnected everything once on their CPU (ah memories).
Most time one can hear that release sound after your CPU goes off?

There's really not a lot you can do to a smoke head, you can blow clear dust particles, Watch for condensation build up. these things are self contained and don't lend themselves to testing.

Because you said in the middle of the night most attic's are in transition
and dissipating the heat of the day I was wondering if the wires or the device itself is effected by this transition as well, Can the device be where the hot air is pass?n over and right through you access holes or on to your terminals? With high amount of insulation, and heavy GA weather, tough call.?
 
iwire said:
If I was sure they all had 120 VAC power, they all had good batteries and they still chirped or otherwised acted odd I would replace them all.
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There is the possibility that line voltage may not be present and the chirping is from that, as some manufacturers have put that capability into their units. Who knows, that may cause false signaling too... as has been mentioned, call the manufacturer to help with this.
 
Considering what a call-back costs in real green dollars, my approach to interconnected smoke alarm repair is to replace them all. When they start to go off for no clear reason, they're normally approaching or beyond the 10 year threashold anyhow, so it's a pretty easy sale when you present informational pamphlets about the 10 year replacement interval. Even if you find a bad smoke alarm by some means, finding a compatible replacement can sometime be tough for legacy models. Another good reason to replace them all. For this reason, normal truck stock for hardwired interconnected smoke detectors is a quantity of 6. Can't sell what you don't have. If a guy leaves the shop in the morning knowing he's going on a smoke alarm call that day, he might even throw a couple extras on, and mabe a combination smoke/CO detector and try for the upsell on one unit.
 
iwire said:
Cad....Smoke 'detectors' do not have batteries.
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Bob could you elaborate on the difference?????

But on the OP I have used pretty much one brand of these for the last decade. 4120B But assume problems can be simular on other makes. A dead battery can make one chirp - but sometimes that chirp can set off the all of them. But the same can happen if one is not powered by AC.

Recently I learned while having 1/2 a remodel occupied, the other under construction - That if the interconnect wire is accidently grounded a simular condition will occure.

Other mystery situations that got solved:
  1. Dusty house
  2. Return or incomming HVAC wafting dust around.
  3. Dust damaged detectors - not having detectors covered during any phase of construction can fill the little chamber with dust that will get moved in any current of air. Blow in the chamber, if it goes off replace it - you will not be able to get it out...
  4. SCENTED CANDLES
  5. Air freshener - this one nearly killed me! It was in a commercial building with a supervised system that I pulled and terminated for a 'parts and smarts' shop. A timed air freshener in a bath room would periodically go off right next to a return air and set off the smoke in the duct work - All hell would break loose - it took a week to figure out.
  6. Humidifiers
  7. Defective detector...
 
e57 said:
Bob could you elaborate on the difference?????
Click to expand...

Sure.

As with many things in our trade what we call something can make a big difference in the requirements.

The devices that we normally install in dwelling units that..

Use 120 VAC and / or 9 VDC.

Detect smoke

Make noise and maybe light

....are UL listed as Smoke Alarms

The devices we use in large buildings...

That detect smoke.

That do not make noise or light.

That must be connected to a Fire Alarm control panel.

....are UL listed as Smoke Detectors

Why does it matter?

Because the building codes require smoke alarms in dwelling units

Because a smoke alarm does not require a dedicated circuit

Because a smoke alarm may be suppled by an AFCI protected circuit.

Because a smoke alarm can be wired using standard NM.

On the other hand the circuit supplying a fire alarm panel can not be GFCI protected (also eliminating AFCIs) and the circuit must be dedicated.
 
dSilanskas said:
We had the same damn problem with the new kiddie smokes. We just changed up the smokes and the problem was fixed but what a pain:mad:
Click to expand...
This is what I always wind up doing. I was looking for a better way to troubleshoot I thought I was missing something.
 
e57 said:
Bob could you elaborate on the difference?????

But on the OP I have used pretty much one brand of these for the last decade. 4120B But assume problems can be simular on other makes. A dead battery can make one chirp - but sometimes that chirp can set off the all of them. But the same can happen if one is not powered by AC.

Recently I learned while having 1/2 a remodel occupied, the other under construction - That if the interconnect wire is accidently grounded a simular condition will occure.

Other mystery situations that got solved:
  1. Dusty house
  2. Return or incomming HVAC wafting dust around.
  3. Dust damaged detectors - not having detectors covered during any phase of construction can fill the little chamber with dust that will get moved in any current of air. Blow in the chamber, if it goes off replace it - you will not be able to get it out...
  4. SCENTED CANDLES
  5. Air freshener - this one nearly killed me! It was in a commercial building with a supervised system that I pulled and terminated for a 'parts and smarts' shop. A timed air freshener in a bath room would periodically go off right next to a return air and set off the smoke in the duct work - All hell would break loose - it took a week to figure out.
  6. Humidifiers
  7. Defective detector...
Click to expand...


this is a very good list for trouble shooting or just plain ideas for locations of smokes.
I wil add (8) not located within 36 inches of ceiling paddle fans.
 
Check the following items :

1) Make sure the ac molex connector is properly snapped into the device. Then look up and make sure you see a pilot light.

2) If you're using combo units make sure they are compatible. Just because they are from the same manufacturer doesn't necessarily mean they're compatible.

3) I would remove and/or replace one device at a time. If you suspect a particular device I would remove that one only and see if your problem disappears
 
e57 said:
Bob could you elaborate on the difference?????

But on the OP I have used pretty much one brand of these for the last decade. 4120B But assume problems can be simular on other makes. A dead battery can make one chirp - but sometimes that chirp can set off the all of them. But the same can happen if one is not powered by AC.

Recently I learned while having 1/2 a remodel occupied, the other under construction - That if the interconnect wire is accidently grounded a simular condition will occure.

Other mystery situations that got solved:
  1. Dusty house
  2. Return or incomming HVAC wafting dust around.
  3. Dust damaged detectors - not having detectors covered during any phase of construction can fill the little chamber with dust that will get moved in any current of air. Blow in the chamber, if it goes off replace it - you will not be able to get it out...
  4. SCENTED CANDLES
  5. Air freshener - this one nearly killed me! It was in a commercial building with a supervised system that I pulled and terminated for a 'parts and smarts' shop. A timed air freshener in a bath room would periodically go off right next to a return air and set off the smoke in the duct work - All hell would break loose - it took a week to figure out.
  6. Humidifiers
  7. Defective detector...
Click to expand...



Thanks guys This was what I was looking for
Chris
 
Smoke alarms come in several types, 120 volt only, 120 volt with battery backup, battery power only, ionization type for all three power types and photo electric type for all three power types. I am not a big fan of the photo type after watching comparison video's of fire detection between the two types, but they do have less false alarm problems since they are not detecting ionized particles like humid air common to early morning hours when the due point is highest. If you have re-occuring problems with false alarms the fix might be to switch to the photo type. As for my own self, I make the customer provide their own smokes, which I then install for them. Therefore my callbacks are billable, and my exposure is less so my insurance agent is happy.
 
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