Trouble shooting tip

[wptski]

A 240v load with one leg disconnected is an open circuit. An open circuit will read 0 volts with a meter. A load with 0 volts cannot operate. Unable to operate, nothing can happen, good (operates as designed and intended) or bad ('burns up').

There are things called controllers, used to control various electrically-powered devices. A controller may disconnect only enough phases or legs to achieve the desired control effect. (It's not uncommon in industrial situations to open two phases of a three-phase circuit to turn a motor off)

Odds are, your own house's AC compressor sitting outside is likely controlled by such a device. Most resi ACs have only one set of contacts that is controlled by the furnace..... one leg is always closed, the other turns the AC on and off. Yet your AC still works today, doesn't it?

My HVAC system is very old but the furnace has the 24VAC transformer, the thermostat uses that 24VAC to operate the blower fan relay and operate the 2P contactor for the 220V compressor.

 

[Teaspoon]

Best advice on the meter puling issue posted!

Most ANY POCO will allow a sparky to pull a meter for service or troubleshooting, IF they call it in first.

Our local POCO has that policy, no problem with pulling as long as it is called in. Many years ago after I did a service change the POCO guys even gave me a handful of seals and some blank covers and rings for future use. :grin:

Thats is the way it is in my area. the POCO has no problem with me pulling a meter, as long as I call in and tell them.This way everybody is happy.
I can do my job. The customer gets their problem fixed.
The POCO knows someone is not stealing Service.

 

[readydave8]

Best advice on the meter puling issue posted!

Most ANY POCO will allow a sparky to pull a meter for service or troubleshooting, IF they call it in first.

Our local POCO has that policy, no problem with pulling as long as it is called in. Many years ago after I did a service change the POCO guys even gave me a handful of seals and some blank covers and rings for future use. :grin:

Neither Ga Power nor HEMC will let us cut seals, I have changed out main breakers hot to avoid calling and waiting. Now I don't. If I do cut a seal I try not to admit it.

 

[jmellc]

But the meter and lock are owed by the POCO. Some of 'em don't take kindly with folk messing around with their cash registers.

I've cut more seals that I can remember. If I happen to talk with POCO on an issue, I inform them. Have never been scolded for it. I've often found burned out lugs or wires in the meter base. I have every right to go into it. But I should force myself to inform POCO whenever I cut one so they can replace it.

 

[Kdog76]

Ask if the power company doesn't have different color meter seals to let you know what's going on.

Georgia Power Blue--Active Gold--Inactive Red--Inactive ( non-payment).

Knowing what that red seal means is a good thing to know.

Exactly right. Here in WI, its usually the black seal for non-payment. I work for a lot of landlords out-of-town so when the power is off on a rental they have no clue what it might be, but that's the 1st thing I check.

Easy money on a service call, heck most times don't even have to get out of the truck to see the seal. And no, we do not remove the meter seal OR pull the meter. That is a no-no. AND, no real need to - our utility guys can usually get there same day, usually on pretty short notice.

 

[iwire]

I've cut more seals that I can remember. If I happen to talk with POCO on an issue, I inform them. Have never been scolded for it. I've often found burned out lugs or wires in the meter base. I have every right to go into it.

No, actually neither you or the property owner has any 'right' to go into the meter socket.

That 'right' is given up in the terms of service the customer agrees to when they set up the account.

 

[satcom]

No, actually neither you or the property owner has any 'right' to go into the meter socket.

That 'right' is given up in the terms of service the customer agrees to when they set up the account.

This is in First Energy Service Manual

Meter & Seal Tampering
• Tampering laws define tampering as interfering with, damaging, or bypassing a meter or service equipment to reduce the amount of electric service registered on the meter. Under the law, proof of tampering or reconnecting an electric meter is considered sufficient evidence that the customer caused the tampering or reconnected the meter. Violators of the law may be sentenced to jail and/or fined. In addition, violators must pay for the value of electricity consumed and the cost of repairs or replacement.
• Breaking of meter seals and/or removal of meters by customers, electrical contractors, or other unauthorized personnel, without prior Company permission, is prohibited and may be subject to penalties.

Yup that is what it says

 

[480sparky]

No, actually neither you or the property owner has any 'right' to go into the meter socket.

That 'right' is given up in the terms of service the customer agrees to when they set up the account.

I disagree. You have every right in the world to go into the meter socket.

What you can't do is go into the meter socket by monkeying with the meter.:grin:

 

[mxslick]

This is in First Energy Service Manual

Meter & Seal Tampering
? Tampering laws define tampering as interfering with, damaging, or bypassing a meter or service equipment to reduce the amount of electric service registered on the meter. Under the law, proof of tampering or reconnecting an electric meter is considered sufficient evidence that the customer caused the tampering or reconnected the meter. Violators of the law may be sentenced to jail and/or fined. In addition, violators must pay for the value of electricity consumed and the cost of repairs or replacement.
? Breaking of meter seals and/or removal of meters by customers, electrical contractors, or other unauthorized personnel, without prior Company permission, is prohibited and may be subject to penalties.

Yup that is what it says

Yep and the highlighted parts reinforce my position that pretty much ANY POCO, when notified in advance, would not have issues with an EC cutting seals and removing meters.

 

[satcom]

Yep and the highlighted parts reinforce my position that pretty much ANY POCO, when notified in advance, would not have issues with an EC cutting seals and removing meters.

Jersey Central Power and Light also wants a current waver on file and a ticket number from the meter department. PSE&G requires you to contact, and notify the inspector assigned to your area before you open the meter, and they will send an inspector out to unlock it if it is locked.

 

[readydave8]

Yep and the highlighted parts reinforce my position that pretty much ANY POCO, when notified in advance, would not have issues with an EC cutting seals and removing meters.

we obviously do not have ANY POCO in Georgia. Any Georgia electricians having the same situation as me? Or does EMC and GA Power single me out?

 

[readydave8]

we obviously do not have ANY POCO in Georgia. Any Georgia electricians having the same situation as me? Or does EMC and GA Power single me out?

No Georgia electricians want to admit that POCO will let them cut seals?

 

[growler]

No Georgia electricians want to admit that POCO will let them cut seals?

Well Dave I have a list two pages long of the different utility companies in Georgia. Most of them I have have never had to deal with and have no idea what their policy is when you cut a meter seal.

I just ran into a strange situation in the last few days that I think is worth a mention. I cut the seal on a meter in an area that I don't usually work and in a jurisdiction I'm not familier with and with a power company where I don't know anyone. It was an emergency job so I permit the job the next day so the inspector will call for a re-seal and that should take care of it.

When I talked to the local inspector about it he tells me that if I hadn't permitted that the power company would have billed the customer an extra $40.00 to re-seal the meter and that would have been it. In another area they do require a permit before a re-seal. There are just so many different jurisdictions and so many different power companies it's hard to keep track of their proceedures and requirements.

The problem is that you will never get anyone to tell you it's OK to cut meter seals. It's much like speeding on the highway, you may get away with it but it's never completely legal. No one can ever say it's OK to speed because each jurisdiction decides how much they will allow before you get a ticket.

 

[readydave8]

Thanks Growler.

 

[Mgraw]

We have 4 POCOs in this area and they all have different rules about cutting seals. One does not allow anyone to cut seals except their employees. There was a guy in my neighborhood had his power cut off for nonpayment (he didn't know it wasn't payed). He called his friend, an EC, when he got home and found no power. The EC cut the seal and found the meter booted. The guy called his wife to go pay the bill, which she did. The POCO came out the next day (they will not do a reconnect for nonpayment on the same day they did a disconnect) and found the seal cut. The POCO pulled the meter and locked the meter base. Would not reconnect until the day after a $250.00 fine was payed. I don't know who the guy was more angry with, his wife for forgetting to pay the bill or his friend, the EC, who cost him $250.00 and another day without electricity.

 

[jmellc]

Scold me all you like. I will cut a seal anytime I need to check out problems. I have enough hoops to jump through already. I will make more effort to report it to the POCO. I know I should do that.