Troubleshooting and Testing

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jerjwillelec

jerjwillelec

Senior Member
Location
Nevada, IA
Occupation
Master Electrician
I'm troubleshooting a paint booth and have come to this point...I think the Honeywell Ignition Transformer (Q652B1006) might be defective because the system faults out when the pilot light should be lit. How do I test the secondary (14kv) of this transformer if my meter is only rated at 1000v?
 
jerjwillelec said:
I'm troubleshooting a paint booth and have come to this point...I think the Honeywell Ignition Transformer (Q652B1006) might be defective because the system faults out when the pilot light should be lit. How do I test the secondary (14kv) of this transformer if my meter is only rated at 1000v?
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To start, I have no idea what a paint booth has to do with an ignition transformer. I'm guessing the ign xmf goes to a gas fired heater - maybe it heats the paint booth. I, of course, have no knowledge of the type or brand you are working - so my response could be all wet.

As I recall from my days doing service work. These are generally high frequency outputs, 10kHz - 20kHz. I haven't heard of a meter for this. I recall checking by observing the points and cheating the xfm on - should give a good arc across the points. Sometimes have to pull the cable and points so one can see them.

Minor caution (that I'm sure you already know)
When you cheat the xfm on make sure the gas is off.

Getting shocked by the xfm is personally known to me to not be pleasant - about like grabbing hold of a car spark plug (the old coil and points type - I haven't tried any of the new 80KV automotive units yet)

ice
 
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Yes, the ignition transformer is to fire a burner to heat outside 30 degree air.

I've got arc but how do I know if it's enough? I guess I don't know what you mean by "cheating the transformer on"

Thank you
 
jerjwillelec said:
... I've got arc but how do I know if it's enough? I guess I don't know what you mean by "cheating the transformer on"Thank you
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Again, I have no knowledge of the unit you are working

Jumpering the circuit to energize the xfm out of sequence. Since you can see the arc - you have that part figured out.

How do you know if it is enough?
Verify the point gap and spacing from the nozzle. That information should be in the book. Does the book give any informatin on the arc appearance? Is there another working unit you can look at?

Or, I doubt this is a < $100 part. Buy a new one.

You might try looking for a troubleshooting chart on the internet, or call the factory techs. I did that when the Riello burners first came out and they were plenty helpful getting me kick started.

ice
 
jerjwillelec said:
I'm troubleshooting a paint booth and have come to this point...I think the Honeywell Ignition Transformer (Q652B1006) might be defective because the system faults out when the pilot light should be lit. How do I test the secondary (14kv) of this transformer if my meter is only rated at 1000v?
Click to expand...

Lots of possibilities and troubleshooting will be based on knowing what should be happening at each point of the process.
A: One possible scenario:
1. Pilot gas valve turns on.
2. Spark fires and stays on for awhile.
Meanwhile a thermocouple in the pilot flame is heating up and
3. Energizes a circuit that allows the pilot gas valve to stay open after the controller turns off the spark. Main burner is turned on as needed.
4. Otherwise a fault is noted and the equipment shuts down.

B: more likely scenario with modern equipment:
1. Pilot gas valve turns on.
2. Spark fires intermittently, and between spark pulses electronics in the controller check the conductivity between the electrodes to see whether ionization (indicating flame) is present.
3a. If the flame detector fires within a programmed timeout, the spark is shut down and the flame stays lit. Main burner turns on as needed.
3b. If the flame detector ever shows the flame going out, or it is never lit, the system faults and shuts down.

Yet another:

C: Like scenario B but with the spark igniter directly lighting the main flame, so that as the main flame cycles on and off there is no constantly or intermittently lit pilot.

Common to all of them is that shortly after the spark is seen, something should light. If you see (or hear) a spark but no flame results, it is most likely that there is a problem with the gas valve, not the igniter.
On the other hand, if you see a spark, then a flame, but the system then shuts down, either the thermocouple or the flame sensor (usually incorporated into a spark generator module which is more than just a transformer) is faulty.
If you hear a spark but do not see it at the pilot ignitor, possibly there is a short in the ignitor wiring and the spark you hear is in the wrong place.

If there is a problem with the gas valve itself, you are no longer just acting as an electrician and will have to choose how far you want to continue in troubleshooting and repair.
 
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iceworm said:
Again, I have no knowledge of the unit you are working

Jumpering the circuit to energize the xfm out of sequence. Since you can see the arc - you have that part figured out.

How do you know if it is enough?
Verify the point gap and spacing from the nozzle. That information should be in the book. Does the book give any informatin on the arc appearance? Is there another working unit you can look at?

Or, I doubt this is a < $100 part. Buy a new one.

You might try looking for a troubleshooting chart on the internet, or call the factory techs. I did that when the Riello burners first came out and they were plenty helpful getting me kick started.

ice
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The system is 12+ years old and the owner has very little information on anything...I've ordered a new transformer...I'm not convinced it is the problem, yet I'm not convinced it isn't either...

Thank you
 
sometimes the plug wires get damp or damaged. it does not take much for the plug not to ignite.

is the pilot valve on and supplying gas for the spark plug to ignite?
 
I would tend to agree with Ice and see if you can find a factory rep and call.

As Golddigger said the SOP is important to know so you know when the unit is supposed to fault out.

Personally I would tend to be cautious before just throwing parts at it hoping you find what works because whenever you do stumble upon something that works I always get that nagging feeling in the back of my head that I didn't actually find why it failed.
 
nateswift2010 said:
Personally I would tend to be cautious before just throwing parts at it hoping you find what works because whenever you do stumble upon something that works I always get that nagging feeling in the back of my head that I didn't actually find why it failed.
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I hate throwing parts at problems as well but this one has a couple of issues including a faulty air proving switch which I figured out but now this...I know exactly what you mean though
 
ptonsparky said:
Did they pay they gas bill? I've had one or two calls where that was the answer.
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I agree with this as well...however, the lights and gas are supplied by the same POCO so I'm assuming they are current with their gas bill...assuming...I should probably ask ;)
 
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