Tv electricians

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electricmanscott

electricmanscott

Senior Member
Location
Boston, MA
Occupation
Massachusetts Master Electrician, one man show.
Yup, even tv electricians can be hacks. Went for a tour of the recently completed This Old House project this week. House was nice but I needed to see the basement. What did I find? A whole bunch of romex stapled to the bottom of the joists. No running boards, no protection, nothing. To make matters worse some of the staples had already pulled out due to the wiring being used to hang stuff from leaving wires hanging low. I assume this passed inspection since the job is done and the house is sold. If it were me working on a nationally syndicated TV show I would make darn certain that all my work is perfect. Even putting the TV angle aside, knowing the house would be open to the public for tours should certainly be incentive to do a good job for the sake of your reputation.
 
Re: Tv electricians

My chapter of the Electrical Council of Florida and a local electrical contractor were choosen to participate in a recent "Extreme Makeover - Home Edition." Nearly 20 apprentices and several journeyman level workers helped during the taping and actual work process. When all was said and done, the ECF and electrical contractor volunteered over 1,000 man hours, and approx. $17,000 in supplies. (The home received a "lightstat controller" with all the bells and whistles.)

Not a single worker, the ECF, nor the electrical contractor received a single word or mention of recognition. Not even a pat on the back for a job well done. The work is as good as it gets. Considering the speed of work completion and all the hands in the pot, I would say it was one of the finest electrical installations I have seen.
 
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Why don't you guys adopt my method of understanding whatever I see on television?

It must not be truthful. That's the requirement.

I'll bet those electrical people wont blow a second 17k Bryan. Or parcipate in another circus. I guess they didn't use a contract. Oops. Probably thought it was something different than it what it was. I guess that's what contracts are for.

Scott, not once have I seen the real story of electrical on these shows. If I went there and saw what you did I'd most definately call the building cops. Sounds illegal to me.

The only thing I'm surprised by is that anyone could still expect something on the television to represent reality in the last 20 years.
 
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Sam the thing that gets me is the fact that while this is a TV show it is still a real building project and a two million dollar+ house. The mantra on the show is always craftmanship, quality, and mechanical systems blah blah blah. If an electrican can be so blatant with a violation that you CAN see what happened behind the walls that you can't.
 
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"Change"; that's a good one. :D

The thing that bothers me is the fact that many home owners watch these shows and at least in Maine, you can do your own wiring to your premises. So IMO, these shows need to be more responsible.

I know I'm picky when I watch the "experts" but I've seen some pretty scary techniques.

[ May 28, 2005, 09:54 AM: Message edited by: ctrider ]
 
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I like seeing the simple stuff get screwed up:

Wire hooks counter-clockwise on terminal screws.

Device ears left on w/old work box, so plate won't hit wall.

Multiple cables crammed through single hole in wood.

Device stab-wiring recommended.
 
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Larry Fine, could you please show us the code that does not allow multiple cables thru a single hole in wood?. Please do not come back and say that you "think" it is no good, because if you do I will reply that I "think""multiple holes drilled thru a 2" x 4" wood stud is much much worse.
 
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Not trying to answer for Larry, San Francisco wants to make it (maybe they already have) a local requirement. After all, who needs structural integrity when there are so many reasons to disallow more than one cable per hole. What were those reasons again?
 
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Sorry, my bad. I wasn't descriptive enough when I used the word "crammed". I meant four or five NM's through a 1/2" hole. I usually use a 7/8" auger and try to limit myself to 4 NM's per hole.
 
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I used to use 3/4 and 7/8 a lot. But doing remodling I really don't need those big holes anymore. My new favorite is 5/8. Good for two 12 NM's, goes right through framing members and the augers take little damage because they don't have to work very hard.
 
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If a wood beam is not laid flatwise to the imposed load the center third of the beam really only keeps the upper third and lower third apart from each other.

Except at the ends where neutral axis shear acts up. Neutral axis shear is a matter that under load the top of a beam compresses and the bottom stretches underneath a load. If the beam dead ends at a support the top of the beam tends to break away from the bottom. If a continous beam passes over a bunch of alternating supports then tension and compression are reversed at the supports.

You can drill just as many REASONABLY sized holes as you want just as long as they are not near the ends, an intermediate support, or a point load.

The reason why old beams in barns have cracking down the center is because of neutral axis shear. In an I-beam the vertical plate takes the neutral axis shear. In truss bridges the struts take the neutral axis shear.
 
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Our building code allows us to bore a hole that doesn`t exceed 40% of the gross cross structure.para lams need engineers underwriting.As far as how many nm`s can be in that hole is up to the ahj ;) Most say as long as the sheathing is not damaged you can put in what is humanly possible
 
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I hear from many electricians that the inspectors here want no more than 3 NM Cables per bored hole. :confused: I am not sure how that started, but I like what Allen posted: "Most say as long as the sheathing is not damaged you can put in what is humanly possible".

As far as structural integrity, I leave that decision up to the building inspector.
 
Re: Tv electricians

Originally posted by pierre:
I hear from many electricians that the inspectors here want no more than 3 NM Cables per bored hole.
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Pierre here I typically see inspectors consider a group of cables running through a series of holes longer than 24" "bundling". So while through a top plate I might put as many cables as possible through one hole, when I run cables thorough a series of studs or joists I will have to break them up into groups of no more than 9 current carrying conductors.

Most times that will mean no more than four - 2 wire cables per hole. :)
 
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Bob
That is the same comment I hear most often.

I myself do not consider that installing cabling horizontally through framing (metallic or wood) to be bundling. If the installer were to tywrap, tape, or otherwise "bundle" the cabling between the framing members, than yes it would be bundling.

There are many instances where the installer will install more than 2 cables, with one cable going up the stud, one cable entering a box, and a couple going to and through to the next stud.

again, this is just my opinion
 
Re: Tv electricians

Originally posted by pierre:
I myself do not consider that installing cabling horizontally through framing (metallic or wood) to be bundling.
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OK, then can you explain the need for Exception No. 5 of 310.15(B)(2)?

The exception tells us 12 AWG MC cable supported by bridle rings is specifically excluded from the 'normal' derating rules unless more than 20 current carrying conductors.

Given that exception do we agree that the NEC considered MC cables run through bridle rings to be bundled?

Now if MC cables running through loose bridle rings every 5' to 6' is bundling, how can we possibly say that NM cables run through bored holes every 16" is not bundling? :)
 
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Bob

"Given that exception do we agree that the NEC considered MC cables run through bridle rings to be bundled?

Now if MC cables running through loose bridle rings every 5' to 6' is bundling, how can we possibly say that NM cables run through bored holes every 16" is not bundling?"


You must of went to church today :D

This is a pretty good argument for bundling... I will have to give it some more thought, and some more reading in THE BOOK, before I change my mind. Give me a couple of years to think about this :D :D
 
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Originally posted by iwire:
Given that exception do we agree that the NEC considered MC cables run through bridle rings to be bundled?
Click to expand...
(c) Not more than 20 current-carrying conductors are bundled, stacked, or supported on ?bridle rings.?
Click to expand...
No, the exception seems to indicate that cables being supported on bridle rings are not bundled, but still subject to derating. ;)
 
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