Two Feeders

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John Valdes

John Valdes

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Is a pedestal meter main considered a structure?

A single family dwelling is fed by a meter main pedestal. The property owner wants to operate a 125 amp phase converter in his attached garage. The garage is already contains a sub panel that will not accommodate this new load.
Art.225.30 requires all separate structures to be fed by no more than one feeder.
Can I run a new feeder to the garage for the phase converter? Since I am dealing with one structure ( If the pedestal is not a structure) would this be compliant.

Thanks John
 
John.....I would say that the Ped is considered a structure. I would talk to the AHJ and see how he would view this. Both feeders would be opened by the main breaker on the Ped so I don't see a grave sin except for the verbage in 225.30 which says no can do.......
 
buckofdurham said:
I have had the AHJ make acceptions to the rule when I needed single and three phase in one building.
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That is not an "exception" per se, and should not require special permission from the AHJ. It is specifically allowed by the code, in 225.30(D).

I do not know what a phase converter would be. But I will suggest that you look into the applicability of 225.30(D) to that type of equipment.
 
buckofdurham said:
I have had the AHJ make acceptions to the rule when I needed single and three phase in one building.
Click to expand...

I think that this would be allowed by the NEC no matter what the inspector had to say.

230.2 (D) Different Characteristics. Additional services shall be permitted for different voltages, frequencies, or phases, or for different uses, such as for different rate schedules.

225.30 (D) Different Characteristics. Additional feeders or branch circuits shall be permitted for different voltages, frequencies, or phases or for different uses, such as control of outside lighting from multiple locations.

But the question is about serving a building with two feeders of the same voltage and phase. This would be a violation of 225.30.
 
Oh, and I thought the AHJ was doing me a favor.:smile:

Maybe the OP needs three phase. Just have the poco run it. If it's in the area.;)
 
jwelectric said:
I think that this would be allowed by the NEC no matter what the inspector had to say.

230.2 (D) Different Characteristics. Additional services shall be permitted for different voltages, frequencies, or phases, or for different uses, such as for different rate schedules.

225.30 (D) Different Characteristics. Additional feeders or branch circuits shall be permitted for different voltages, frequencies, or phases or for different uses, such as control of outside lighting from multiple locations.

But the question is about serving a building with two feeders of the same voltage and phase. This would be a violation of 225.30.
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Mike,
This question is also on a thread in Guru. A little different take than what I posted here. 225.30 states separate structures and does not mention single structures. The garage is attached.

Lets look at an example:
A spa is fed from the main service panel. The spa has no OCP, so I install a prefabbed disconnect with receptacle, contactor and E-Stop capability. IMO this circuit would be a feeder. The circuit does not terminate/end at the prefabbed disco, and the OCP is contained in the disco. So in this instance I am adding a feeder and this is not a violation? I know this is acceptable, so why would the feeder for the converter be a violation?

225.30 addresses branch circuits in the same language.
 
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John I am having trouble understanding. If you bring 2 feeders from a pedestal to the same building then it is a violation. You can only bring one feeder to the structure.

If you have a garage that is attached to the house then yes you can bring as many circuits to that garage as you want as long as it is fed from the attached building.
 
Dennis Alwon said:
John I am having trouble understanding. If you bring 2 feeders from a pedestal to the same building then it is a violation. You can only bring one feeder to the structure.

If you have a garage that is attached to the house then yes you can bring as many circuits to that garage as you want as long as it is fed from the attached building.
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Dennis,
Thanks for making this so simple. Pedestal NO, Meter main panel attached to structure with attached garage YES. Feeders and branch circuits.
Thanks Buddy
 
Now I am confused....I thought the original question dealt with a scenario using a meter main on a pedestal :-? . Is this pedestal attached to the house?????
 
This question was on a DIY site. The house with attatched garage had two feeders from a pedistal service, a 200 amp feeder/panel in the house, and a 125 amp feeder/panel at the garage, with no main at the garage location no less. Homeowner wired it himself, thought it was good because the inspector signed off on it.
 
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John Valdes said:
Mike,
Lets look at an example:
A spa is fed from the main service panel. The spa has no OCP, so I install a prefabbed disconnect with receptacle, contactor and E-Stop capability. IMO this circuit would be a feeder. The circuit does not terminate/end at the prefabbed disco, and the OCP is contained in the disco. So in this instance I am adding a feeder and this is not a violation? I know this is acceptable, so why would the feeder for the converter be a violation?
225.30 addresses branch circuits in the same language.
Click to expand...

Two questions here;

1) is the main on the house or is it on a pedestal?
If the main is on the house then where would it be a violation to install any type of circuit to a tub.
If the main is on a pedestal and supplying a tub that is located on the outside then the circuit supplying the tub would not be in violation of 225.30 as it is not supplying the structure of building at the tub.

2) Why do you think that the conductors supplying the tub would be feeders?
 
A/A Fuel GTX said:
Now I am confused....I thought the original question dealt with a scenario using a meter main on a pedestal :-? . Is this pedestal attached to the house?????
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No it's not. Sorry about the confusion. The ped is free standing next to the dwelling. The question was, could he run a new feeder from the ped to his attached garage, when a sub panel exist's in the garage already.
The question really was "Is the ped a structure in itself". That question still begs for an answer.
But it is clear enough for me now and I hope it is for you too.......John

I think? :-?
 
John Valdes said:
No it's not. Sorry about the confusion. The ped is free standing next to the dwelling. The question was, could he run a new feeder from the ped to his attached garage, when a sub panel exist's in the garage already.
The question really was "Is the ped a structure in itself". That question still begs for an answer.
But it is clear enough for me now and I hope it is for you too.......John

I think? :-?
Click to expand...

John I would consider the pedestal a structure but that would have no bearing on whther or not he can have 2 feeders to the garage. If the pedestal is not part of the building then you cannot feed the garage or house twice from that pedestal.
 
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