Two final lien waivers ?

[sparky 134]

The GC is asking me to produce two final lien waivers for a project, one for the electrical and one for the fire alarm. I only have one contract for both. I explained that I cannot create two separate waivers as one would invalidate the other. He countered with he has me listed separately on his contractors affadavit.

I submitted one final waiver and under the column of work performed I listed electrical on the first line with a dollar amount and fire alarm on the second line with a dollar amount. He rejected it saying he needs two separate waivers.

I'm refusing to do so. My reasoning is if I'm not paid for one of the waivers and I lien the project the lien would be dismissed because of the other waiver.

Has anyone else encountered this situation ?

 

[satcom]

The GC is asking me to produce two final lien waivers for a project, one for the electrical and one for the fire alarm. I only have one contract for both. I explained that I cannot create two separate waivers as one would invalidate the other. He countered with he has me listed separately on his contractors affadavit.

I submitted one final waiver and under the column of work performed I listed electrical on the first line with a dollar amount and fire alarm on the second line with a dollar amount. He rejected it saying he needs two separate waivers.

I'm refusing to do so. My reasoning is if I'm not paid for one of the waivers and I lien the project the lien would be dismissed because of the other waiver.

Has anyone else encountered this situation ?

Waivers are slick documents, and we turn them over to our attorney for advice, and usually they find them up side down in the favor of the owners or GC's sounds like the owner was told not to worry about lien problems, the GC will get to sub to sign away his ability to lien. Don't you use an attorney for your larger dollar contracts?

 

[gadfly56]

The GC is asking me to produce two final lien waivers for a project, one for the electrical and one for the fire alarm. I only have one contract for both. I explained that I cannot create two separate waivers as one would invalidate the other. He countered with he has me listed separately on his contractors affadavit.

I submitted one final waiver and under the column of work performed I listed electrical on the first line with a dollar amount and fire alarm on the second line with a dollar amount. He rejected it saying he needs two separate waivers.

I'm refusing to do so. My reasoning is if I'm not paid for one of the waivers and I lien the project the lien would be dismissed because of the other waiver.

Has anyone else encountered this situation ?

I haven't seen this, but I'm not sure what you are worried about. The waivers are for particular dollar amounts, yes? If he doesn't pay you for one, its dollar value is outstanding, as long as they are both a conditional waivers.


One job we have now, our scheduler hand-carrys the waiver to the GC's office and trades it for our check. I imagine a scene out of "A Fistful of Dollars" or something similar.

 

[satcom]

I haven't seen this, but I'm not sure what you are worried about. The waivers are for particular dollar amounts, yes? If he doesn't pay you for one, its dollar value is outstanding, as long as they are both a conditional waivers.


One job we have now, our scheduler hand-carrys the waiver to the GC's office and trades it for our check. I imagine a scene out of "A Fistful of Dollars" or something similar.

Yes, as long as they are both a conditional waivers.

 

[sparky 134]

I haven't seen this, but I'm not sure what you are worried about. The waivers are for particular dollar amounts, yes? If he doesn't pay you for one, its dollar value is outstanding, as long as they are both a conditional waivers.

These are final waivers, not partials that's why I'm concerned. I have a base contract amount which was increased several times with change orders. A small amount of fire alarm work was included in my original contract and subsequent change orders for additional fire alarm increased the contract amount. At no time did I have a separate contract for fire alarm work.

Another contractor proposed a different angle the GC might be trying. The owner may not even know about the change orders for the fire alarm work. The separate waiver for the fire alarm work is needed because if that amount is included on the 'electrical' final waiver it would cause the project amount to be off thus raising a red flag. The fire alarm waiver may simply be tossed into the garbage can. If I wasn't paid for the FA work and filed a lien the owner could say he did not know about the FA work and he has a final waiver from the EC showing I'm paid in full.

The GC called asking me to explain my refusal to supply two different waivers. I explained my concerns and he said he is submitting his paperwork to the owner with my final waiver which shows both electrical and fire alarm but he doesn't think they will accept it. I told him if they have a question just call me and I'll explain my position.

He wasn't too happy. I'm not trying to be difficult, just protecting myself.

 

[Sparky555]

These are final waivers, not partials that's why I'm concerned. I have a base contract amount which was increased several times with change orders. A small amount of fire alarm work was included in my original contract and subsequent change orders for additional fire alarm increased the contract amount. At no time did I have a separate contract for fire alarm work.

Another contractor proposed a different angle the GC might be trying. The owner may not even know about the change orders for the fire alarm work. The separate waiver for the fire alarm work is needed because if that amount is included on the 'electrical' final waiver it would cause the project amount to be off thus raising a red flag. The fire alarm waiver may simply be tossed into the garbage can. If I wasn't paid for the FA work and filed a lien the owner could say he did not know about the FA work and he has a final waiver from the EC showing I'm paid in full.

The GC called asking me to explain my refusal to supply two different waivers. I explained my concerns and he said he is submitting his paperwork to the owner with my final waiver which shows both electrical and fire alarm but he doesn't think they will accept it. I told him if they have a question just call me and I'll explain my position.

He wasn't too happy. I'm not trying to be difficult, just protecting myself.

I'm with gadfly on this. The final waiver and check are a trade. I'd never give the final w/o receiving the payment.

 

[CopperTone]

I posted a question a while back about lien waivers. Here is how I rectified the problem.
We threw out they unconditional lien waiver form that the GC sent us. We replaced it with a "conditional lien waiver" form of our own. It basically said the same thing except wording was added to the effect of this conditional lien waiver shall act as an unconditional lien waiver upon the sucessful bank transaction of the final payment in the amount of X.

If you have one contract, I don't see why you would need more than one final lien waiver, however, if they want you to break it down then you should rewrite the lien waiver making it conditional upon final payment clearing through the banking system and be very clear on what you are releasing any lien for. Specify contract amounts and for what portion of work it is for. If you do that then you are protecting yourself. I've signed a few "conditional progress payments" for the same job before with a final waiver at the end.

I agree sending in 2 final lien waivers without specifying for what portion of work that it is for could be confusing if you don't get paid for the other portion of work. Just be specific and write your our lien waiver.