May the Detector and Notifier, Class-B Fire Alarm Circuits, from a Single Zone FACP, be carried in the same cable without raising a code violation issue? Except for Pull-Stations, Horn/Strobe Devices and Smoke/Heat Detectors are to be installed in co-located pairs the ceilings of most rooms of an ALF. A Fire Alarm Cable consisting 4-Conductors of 14-AWG Solid Copper is available for this purpose.
Two Fire Alarm, Class-B Circuits In Same Cable
- Thread starter whgeiger
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gadfly56
Senior Member
- Location
- New Jersey
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- Professional Engineer, Fire & Life Safety
This would not be a code violation UNLESS the manufacturer's installation instructions say otherwise. I am pretty certain that you could, for most systems, run two CABLES together (i.e. two 16/2 FPLP's) but I have a vague recollection that at least one manufacturer told me that they recomend/require that the alarm and notification not be run in the same cable, utilizing for instance one 16/4 FPLP. Call tech support at the panel manufacturer and get it from the horse's mouth.
No violation,
I personally wouldn't do it in a single zone FACP.
But I have run an class B IDC and an class B NAC in the same piece of MC or FPL in multi zone panels, quite often.
However many panel instructions tell you to route NAC's in one KO and IDC's in another, it might be wrong in that, but its a rule often overlooked without consequence. I'm not advocating NPLFA and PLFA in the same KO of course.
I personally wouldn't do it in a single zone FACP.
But I have run an class B IDC and an class B NAC in the same piece of MC or FPL in multi zone panels, quite often.
However many panel instructions tell you to route NAC's in one KO and IDC's in another, it might be wrong in that, but its a rule often overlooked without consequence. I'm not advocating NPLFA and PLFA in the same KO of course.
To: gadfly56 & nhfire77
Thanks for the response to my first message on this forum.
The FACP vendor for the subject facility has not been selected yet.
Will address this issue with the candidates in the RFQ as well.
If there is no code violation, then what remains is the issue of cross-talk between the two circuits when resident in the same cable. Doubt this would be a problem when a DC current reversal is the extent of the signaling protocol used in an IDC Class B circuit. Want to minimize the time spent fishing cable through an attic filled with loose fiberglass insulation. As you guys well know, on a hot summer night, no one wants to do this for very long!
Are you familiar with the Twinflex system? Each circuit supports both IDC and NAC devices.
http://www.rafikiprotection.com/twinflex.html
Thanks for the response to my first message on this forum.
The FACP vendor for the subject facility has not been selected yet.
Will address this issue with the candidates in the RFQ as well.
If there is no code violation, then what remains is the issue of cross-talk between the two circuits when resident in the same cable. Doubt this would be a problem when a DC current reversal is the extent of the signaling protocol used in an IDC Class B circuit. Want to minimize the time spent fishing cable through an attic filled with loose fiberglass insulation. As you guys well know, on a hot summer night, no one wants to do this for very long!
Are you familiar with the Twinflex system? Each circuit supports both IDC and NAC devices.
http://www.rafikiprotection.com/twinflex.html
I could not find a UL listing for that panel. So my answer is based on NFPA 72. I doubt that panel is NFPA 72 compliant. Not that there is anything wrong with it, I kind of like the idea for a small occupancy, but it wouldn't fly here in the states.
Cross talk should not be an issue if it designed for it. Seems like a hybrid addressable/conventional loop.
Interesting.
Where are you planning on using this(non US right)? What type of occupancy?
Cross talk should not be an issue if it designed for it. Seems like a hybrid addressable/conventional loop.
Interesting.
Where are you planning on using this(non US right)? What type of occupancy?
Mgraw
Senior Member
- Location
- Opelousas, Louisiana
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- Electrician
I believe it is sold and installed here in the US. I didn't know only UL listed panels could be installed. You have a code reference for that?
You are kidding right?
Specifically not UL but must be listed and acceptable to the AHJ, most will only accept UL or ETL or maybe FM.
NFPA 72
2002 4.3.1
2010 3.2.5
Twinflex is not Listed (by anyone) or approved in the US, as far as I see.
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Mgraw
Senior Member
- Location
- Opelousas, Louisiana
- Occupation
- Electrician
That product is Listed in the Red Book, a globally recognized certification company.
What states/AHJ's here in the US recognize that?
Is a certification company the same as a listing company, I fail to recognize that term.
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Mgraw
Senior Member
- Location
- Opelousas, Louisiana
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- Electrician
I don't know who in the US recognizes them. But they do have an office here. And they do sell them. Yes their "certification" is the same as our "listed".
I'm not saying FIKE is not sold here, they do indeed have UL listed FACP's
The link the OP provided is for a UK site and that model does not have UL listing for standards in the US.
Mgraw
Senior Member
- Location
- Opelousas, Louisiana
- Occupation
- Electrician
The code states "nationally" recognized. US being the nation. I can't imagine red book
Certification applying here.
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