Two GFI's at the same time?

[bjp_ne_elec]

Got a call from a good customer, and I already had two calls to go and it was past dinner. They had some thunderstorms go through and all of a sudden they have two GFCIs that won't reset. Tell them to assure everything is unplugged from any down line receptacles. Have worked on homes in this development before, and the GFCI is in the bathroom and picks up receptacles in the basement and the outside of the house - it's consistent. So owner verifies everything is unplugged, but still can't reset either.

I would think if there was a surge, some of the electronics in the house would be taken out - as you typically see TVs, VCRs and the likes get zapped.

Is it possible something could have taken out two GFCIs and done no further damage? I can't get over to the house for a few days, so not sure what I'll find.

 

[charlie b]

It is possible that the lightning strike caused some damage to the wiring. As a result, the GFCI may simply be doing it's job (i.e., properly tripping in response to a short circuit in the wiring).

One question you might ask: what do they mean by "it won't reset"? What exactly happens when they push the reset button? Do they feel the customary "click" sound, after which (and after some short amount of time) they hear another click, and see the "trip" button pop out? If so, that tells me that there really is a ground fault, and that the GFCI is working properly. Or, when they push the reset, does it merely spring back without engaging the latching mechanism internal to the device, and without making any click sound? If so, that tells me the GFCI device itself might have been damaged.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Failure due to nearby lighting is a common failure mode for GFCIs.

 

[haskindm]

If the circuit breaker also tripped the GFCI receptacle cannot be reset until power is restored....

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Failure due to nearby lighting is a common failure mode for GFCIs.

I agree. You may also have a short in the circuit that is causing the GFCI to trip. If the reset button goes in but there is no power when the circuit is energized then replace the Gfci.

 

[Sierrasparky]

If the circuit breaker also tripped the GFCI receptacle cannot be reset until power is restored....

Not if its pre- lockout
If it has a pliot light what color does it show?

Ya know I found some of those old ones buiried behind some boxes...
I really like the ones with the Red/ Green light

 

[LarryFine]

If it has a pliot light what color does it show?

That can be a tricky one, too. I've seen GFCI receptacles that have an LED that lights when it's set, and some that have a light when it trips . . . even in the same brand!

We might want to clarify whether the OP is talking about GFCI receptacles or breakers; I've had more than one customer not know about off-then-on to reset breakers. :-?

One more thing to look out for: more than one GFCI device in the same circuit. I once had a TS call and found three wired feed-thru in a single circuit I had to reset. :roll:

 

[bjp_ne_elec]

Larry - should have been more specific, but it is GFCI receptacles, and I did ask the HO during that initial attempt to T/S over the phone, if it there was click - and the answer was "no", there was no response when pushing the RESET button. They did also verify that the CB was not tripped, as I had asked them to check that as well. In fact I asked them to verify that absolutely no CB was tripped, and they're telling me they did not see one CB tripped - they actually had the level of knowledge to at least check that.

I'm just having a hard time buying that two GFCIs went bad (assuming that's it) at the same time. Again, my previous experience has shown that usually other electronic equipment is damaged with the surge that damages the GFCI.

 

[charlie b]

Another basic question (about as insulting to the HO as, "did you plug your computer in?", but you never know): Have they any evidence that it was related to the thunderstorm, and that the two GFCI's have not been inoperable for years? Did something that was powered via one of the devices at the time of the storm lose its power during the storm?

 

[bjp_ne_elec]

They had both been functioning before the storm, and there was a power vent on the hot water heater that was connected by a cord to a receptacle that was down line from one of the GFCIs. I told the HO to run an extension cord to this, to see if it was at least working, and the gas heater took off as soon as they plugged in the power vent.

 

[cadpoint]

If your remember that its chips in the GFCI and lighting...

Where is the Surge protection

Not that its any equalizer verse ligthing...

 

[haskindm]

Please let us know how this ends. My money is still on no power to the circuit so the GFCI receptacles won't reset, but there are many other possibilities.

 

[svh19044]

Is it possible something could have taken out two GFCIs and done no further damage? I can't get over to the house for a few days, so not sure what I'll find.

ABSOLUTELY. In my short lifetime, I can't count the number of calls in which this has happened. 1 GFCI here, 1 TV there, 1 microwave here, (every single freaking) smoke detector there but nothing else.

It's completely possible. Make sure that there isn't power to them, and if everything checks out good with the meter, install the new GFCI and let it go. It's not abnormal at all. I have a customer who gets a single item here or there every time a storm comes through, and still won't spend the couple hundred dollars for an entire house surge suppressor which could completely stop their expensive calls. :roll:

 

[electricalperson]

ive heard other electricians at the local IAEI meeting talking about transiants caused by lighting strikes causing GFCI's to fail. pretty common to go to a summer house down the cape to replace all the gfci's once the owner decides to live there for the summer
maybe one of those fancy whole house surge protectors could be installed here

 

[bjp_ne_elec]

Haskindm - you get the prize. Finally made it over to this house today. First GFCI I pull out only has one RX coming in to it. Second one surely has not power, but go back to panel and all breakers are on. Even pull cover to make sure nothing has come loose - all wires leaving breakers are energized - hmmmmmmmmmmm. Ask HO again - "You sure you don't have any more GFCIs in the house. He thinks a bit, walks our in the garage, moves about 60 items that are stacked along one wall. Sure enough, there's one back there. Reset the GFCI - BINGO - both GFCIs come back to life. They had the other two GFCIs on the load side of the one in the garage.

Ah, as long as I'm here - ask "anything else need my attention while I'm here?". "Oh yeah, let me have ya look at this." Walks me out around the back of the house and up on the deck - theres a metal FS box hanging there and a receptacle hanging out of it, and no cover on the receptacle. Thankfully the receptacle wasn't hot - another GFCI in the house was tripped that fed this. HO hadn't needed to use this one - thank the lord!
Senior Member

 

[bikeindy]

Haskindm - you get the prize. Finally made it over to this house today. First GFCI I pull out only has one RX coming in to it. Second one surely has not power, but go back to panel and all breakers are on. Even pull cover to make sure nothing has come loose - all wires leaving breakers are energized - hmmmmmmmmmmm. Ask HO again - "You sure you don't have any more GFCIs in the house. He thinks a bit, walks our in the garage, moves about 60 items that are stacked along one wall. Sure enough, there's one back there. Reset the GFCI - BINGO - both GFCIs come back to life. They had the other two GFCIs on the load side of the one in the garage.

Ah, as long as I'm here - ask "anything else need my attention while I'm here?". "Oh yeah, let me have ya look at this." Walks me out around the back of the house and up on the deck - theres a metal FS box hanging there and a receptacle hanging out of it, and no cover on the receptacle. Thankfully the receptacle wasn't hot - another GFCI in the house was tripped that fed this. HO hadn't needed to use this one - thank the lord!
Senior Member

I had this exact same service call three weeks ago with one of my customers, only I had too move all the stuff to find a GFCI that "wasn't there" you mean there is a receptical back there? yep.

 

[roger]

I had lightning strike a tree 50' from my house (my house has been hit or had close strikes quite a few times) about ten years ago and tripped every GFCI receptacle, at first they wouldn't reset but after a few tries I was able to get all of them back on but they no longer work as GFCI's.

Roger

 

[ohm]

The folks who confirmed that lightning does indeed kill a GFCI voiced my concern. At a recent inspectors meeting we talked about the 2008 requirement that freezers and sump pumps in basements must now be on GFCI's. I asked who would pay to to replace ruined food or flooded basements hooked up to the receptacles I just installed, after a storm.

The guy from CA giving the seminar said due to advances in technoligy that would not happen.

 

[bikeindy]

The guy from CA giving the seminar said due to advances in technoligy that would not happen.

Did you ask him where his flying car was parked?

 

[brother]

The folks who confirmed that lightning does indeed kill a GFCI voiced my concern. At a recent inspectors meeting we talked about the 2008 requirement that freezers and sump pumps in basements must now be on GFCI's. I asked who would pay to to replace ruined food or flooded basements hooked up to the receptacles I just installed, after a storm.

The guy from CA giving the seminar said due to advances in technoligy that would not happen.

the thing is, how often does lighting strike, compared to some HO using the so called 'dedicated freezer receptacle' for work in the garage and getting shocked. I was told this was the main reason that they expanded the gfci. Also if electronic/gfci type equipment always get hit during lighting wouldnt that mean that the GEC should be better to lower the resistance? Correct me please if im wrong.