Two pipes

[hhsting]

Understand I had some variation of this in other threads but just found out that the underground water pipe is connected.

Please see attached sketch shows one building fed by service Swbd feeder breaker to underground outside feeder to Panel P which is on outside wall of the building.

I have incoming main service water pipe which makes T and splits outside the building underground. Between Elec room#1 and Elec room#2 underground water pipe is metallic Not isolated.

One section comes up from underground into building Electrical Room #1 and second section comes up from underground in building Electrical Room #2.

Panel P requires grounding electrode system section 225 of NEC 2014 fed from outside feeder. Panel P already has supplemental ground rods.

Question:

1. When considering NEC 2014 section 250.50 and 250.50(A)(1), From Panel P one needs one GEC to Electrical room #1 underground water pipe only or their needs to be two GECs from panel P one to Elec Room #1 and another to Elec Room#2?

2. When consider NEC 2014 section 250.104(A) so would one require GEC or bonding jumper from Panel P to Elec Room #1 underground water pipe only or would need two GECs or binding jumpers from Panel P one to Elec Room#1 and another to Elec Room#2?

 

[Hv&Lv]

$20 for the correct answer AND the exact code articles.

$10 for number one and $10 for number 2..

I figure if your getting paid for this some of us may as well get paid also...

 

[hhsting]

$20 for the correct answer AND the exact code articles.

$10 for number one and $10 for number 2..

I figure if your getting paid for this some of us may as well get paid also...

Huh?
I get paid 5 cents and if job is done right. Out of that taxes, healthcare etc etc takes 4 cents away. I dont get paid. Thats not even enough to buy gift which is like 0.99 cents




How come other people ask questions dont have to pay

 

[electrofelon]

I would say per 250.50, all electrodes present need to be used, you need to bond both pipes. I guess one could argue they are the same pipe. The language doesnt really get that specific, you will just have to make a call on it.

 

[augie47]

5 cents seems a lil overpaid considering but you may be the mayors son-in-law (thought that for some time now )
I agree with electrocfeleon.. yor are the AHJ need to make the call as, IMO, the situation is not specufically spelled out in the NEC. Again, IMO, the piping system is one electrode and you can hit it within 5 ft at both electric rooms.

 

[electrofelon]

5 cents seems a lil overpaid considering but you may be the mayors son-in-law (thought that for some time now )
I agree with electrocfeleon.. yor are the AHJ need to make the call as, IMO, the situation is not specufically spelled out in the NEC. Again, IMO, the piping system is one electrode and you can hit it within 5 ft at both electric rooms.

Do you mean either? So they only need to hit it once?

 

[hhsting]

Do you mean either? So they only need to hit it once?

Yea not exactly clear.

Also their is exception if multiple concrete encased electrode are present to have only one bond to grounding electrode system. No such language for multiple underground water pipes in one building. Instead language says all grounding electrode present at the building must be bonded

 

[hhsting]

5 cents seems a lil overpaid considering but you may be the mayors son-in-law (thought that for some time now )
I agree with electrocfeleon.. yor are the AHJ need to make the call as, IMO, the situation is not specufically spelled out in the NEC. Again, IMO, the piping system is one electrode and you can hit it within 5 ft at both electric rooms.

you guys are something . Why me? Mayor son in law and 5 cents overpaid. If I was mayor son in law then I would be chillin wouldn’t be here or working NEC is a headache with all gray areas it has

 

[electrofelon]

Yea not exactly clear.

Also their is exception if multiple concrete encased electrode are present to have only one bond to grounding electrode system.

Please tell me more about this

 

[hhsting]

Please tell me more about this

Whats to tell? Language is pretty clear for multiple concrete encased electrode. Please see for yourself NEC 2014 Section 250.52(A)(3). Last sentence above information notes. So much for “all grounding electrodes present at building to be bonded” huh.

 

[electrofelon]

Whats to tell? Language is pretty clear for multiple concrete encased electrode. Please see for yourself NEC 2014 Section 250.52(A)(3). Last sentence above information notes. So much for “all grounding electrodes present at building to be bonded” huh.

Oh ok, I misunderstood what you were saying. Thought you were saying if there are multiple CEE, then no other electrodes need to be used of present.

 

[infinity]

Yea not exactly clear.

Also their is exception if multiple concrete encased electrode are present to have only one bond to grounding electrode system. No such language for multiple underground water pipes in one building. Instead language says all grounding electrode present at the building must be bonded

Yes it's explicit for the CEE but if it's the same water pipe then why would it need to be connected twice?

 

[hhsting]

Yes it's explicit for the CEE but if it's the same water pipe then why would it need to be connected twice?

It same water pipe but at both places where it comes up in building both are in direct contact with the earth for at least 10 feet or more

According 250.52(A)(1) they are grounding electrodes but are they same grounding electrodes or different ones? Its the same pipe just T split but is it same grounding electrodes or two different?

All grounding electrodes need to be bonded. Does it say same grounding electrodes does not need to be bonded? Does it say different grounding electrodes need to be bonded?

 

[augie47]

From your earlier posts if I recall correctly these two electric rooms are fed by feeders and are considered separate buildings so approached it as such.
If it is one building, hit the water and CEE from Panel P

 

[hhsting]

From your earlier posts if I recall correctly these two electric rooms are fed by feeders and are considered separate buildings so approached it as such.
If it is one building, hit the water and CEE from Panel P

Their is no CEE at this building. No building steel.
Its now only one structure and now the one structure is fed from one feeder and Panel P.

So the structure is served by one main underground water pipe but splits T outside underground and comes up from underground at two different places in the structure. All Grounding electrodes present at structure be bonded

So hit the underground water pipe from both places where it comes up in the structure from panel P two GECs or just hit underground water pipe at one place where it comes up from panel P and one GEC?

 

[Hv&Lv]

Their is no CEE at this building. No building steel.
Its now only one structure and now the one structure is fed from one feeder and Panel P.

So the structure is served by one main underground water pipe but splits T outside underground and comes up from underground at two different places in the structure. All Grounding electrodes present at structure be bonded

So hit the underground water pipe from both places where it comes up in the structure from panel P two GECs or just hit underground water pipe at one place where it comes up from panel P and one GEC?

The way you describe it I would hit it at both places.

 

[augie47]

Post 12 pretty weel sums it up. You have ONE building supplied from ONE panel ( "P" ) and ONE water pipe.