Tying onto old brittle cloth circuits

[Mule]

We are in the middle of a job where we are repulling old cloth circuits, but not all the way back to the panel....So to avoid bending the conductors at the jbox where we tie on, we are first shortening the RSC exposing good conductors then installing large 4 11/16 box's with no-thread connectors. We cut the old conductors purposely short (width of the box), so we dont have to bend them and damage the insulation. I know that's not a legal 6" past the face of the box....but it beats damaging the insulation....Wirenuting onto new thhn...works fairly well...

any other methods?

 

[LarryFine]

any other methods?

Sliding lengths of modern insulation over the exposed old conductor to replace the disintegrating old stuff.

 

[quogueelectric]

Alternate to buy bulk heat shrink tube on ebay and slide it on and heat shrink over damaged conductors.

 

[electricmanscott]

. I know that's not a legal 6" past the face of the box

You are only requird to have 3" past the face of the box. The 6" measurement is the length of conductor required from where it enters the box.


Your method sounds reasonable to me.

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

Cloth braid insulated conductors are old, they also may have been installed and in use past the designed lifespan of the conductor. Not only that, one really has no idea of the loads that have been imposed on the conductor or if there were any significant fault conditions during the time it has been installed.


Therefore, when reusing the old clothe braid insulated conductors, we have the EC megger the conductors, before energizing the circuits. The failure rate is very high.

 

[Mule]

Cloth braid insulated conductors are old, they also may have been installed and in use past the designed lifespan of the conductor. Not only that, one really has no idea of the loads that have been imposed on the conductor or if there were any significant fault conditions during the time it has been installed.


Therefore, when reusing the old clothe braid insulated conductors, we have the EC megger the conductors, before energizing the circuits. The failure rate is very high.

The portion we are not replacing visualbly looks marginable. Heat from light fixtures however has taken its toll, so that's the portions we are replacing.

The home run RSC's are underneath the structure and labor intensive to access via long, and low clearance crawl spaces, and we're unsure about other jbox's that may exist. So we decidedThe owner wants to wait until they have some failures first then repull at that time, and frankly it sounds good to me....

The load is only about 500watts per 20amp circuit.There are 12 circuits...4circuits in each pipe

 

[petersonra]

sometimes it is impractical or uneconomical to replace things that probably should be replaced like this kind of wiring.

it seems like the heat shrink idea is probably about as good as you are going to get short of mass replacement.

i might be inclined to protect such circuits with GFCIs if you can't replace them. as old as they are, they may be prone to failure and there is no good way to tell what shape they are really in.

 

[petersonra]

Therefore, when reusing the old clothe braid insulated conductors, we have the EC megger the conductors, before energizing the circuits. The failure rate is very high.

Just out of curiosity, what criteria are you using for pass/fail?

Is there any published data on it? or is it like pornography?

 

[Mule]

Just out of curiosity, what criteria are you using for pass/fail?

Is there any published data on it? or is it like pornography?

The customer has experienced a mulititude of failures due to bad lamp sockets, and this brittle wiring. Flaking insulation, rotten friction tape, you know.... We are replacing all of the sockets and the wiring far from the heat source, like fifty feet away.

They have had no failures in the home run pipes. The brittle insulation in these home runs, for now, is holding with nominal voltage applied, but I've warned them that it want be long until they will be experiecing additional failures....all it will take is a voltage surge due to lighting or other means, and it will arc over to the raceway, and then they will call....

 

[electricalperson]

Cloth braid insulated conductors are old, they also may have been installed and in use past the designed lifespan of the conductor. Not only that, one really has no idea of the loads that have been imposed on the conductor or if there were any significant fault conditions during the time it has been installed.


Therefore, when reusing the old clothe braid insulated conductors, we have the EC megger the conductors, before energizing the circuits. The failure rate is very high.

there was some old BX on a job i was working on. i decided to megger the feed from the tangle box in the attic to one of the receptacles we were working on. it was 2 megs! i replaced it the next day

 

[peter d]

I doubt you'll have much luck connecting a circuit to cloth. Cloth is not a conductor.

 

[electricalperson]

I doubt you'll have much luck connecting a circuit to cloth. Cloth is not a conductor.

so when is your stand up comedian show going on tour

 

[peter d]

so when is your stand up comedian show going on tour

Is that a statement or a question?

My show is always on tour. And best of all you get all these laughs for free. :roll:

 

[MichaelGP3]

any other methods?

Same as you're doing, unless there is room for something larger (a gutter, or a larger can).

 

[JohnJ0906]

My show is always on tour. And best of all you get all these laughs for free. :roll:

You're overcharging.... :wink:

 

[RHJohnson]

Pierre - I am curious also what criteria you use.

Someone mentioned replacing an old wire because it only meggered at 2 megohms.

That old type wire wouldn't megger very high even if it was brand new!

If it meggered 2 megohms, and the insulation was cracking and falling off, to the extent I was afraid to bend it.. I'd change it.

I spent quite a few years working in a very poor environment, especially for anything electrical. Picture +100 F, 100% humidity, dust so thick you could see it in the air several times during a day. Water actually running down vertical cables (Medium Volt - not Low Volt)......and it gets worse than that. The megger reading was only part of what we looked at, and sometimes 2 megohms was pretty darn good!

 

[alfiesauce]

using heatshrink tubing and a waggo works well for getting those short wires to connect without having to endanger them further by twisting them into a wirenut.

 

[Mule]

using heatshrink tubing and a waggo works well for getting those short wires to connect without having to endanger them further by twisting them into a wirenut.

"Waggo" that's new for me, what is it?

In this case I just unscrew a piece of RSC and saw it off 4 11/16, put on a no-thread connector and bingo I've got longer conductors to tie onto...

 

[Mule]

You're overcharging.... :wink:

Maybe you should go on tour....THAT was funny....in fact I'd pay...still laughing !!!!!!!

 

[electricalperson]

using heatshrink tubing and a waggo works well for getting those short wires to connect without having to endanger them further by twisting them into a wirenut.

if the wire was so fragile that a wire nut could break it apart wouldnt the wire be past its life expectancy and should be replaced anyway? would that wire be able to hold 15 or 20 amps?