Type NM cable use in restaurant

[comet]

Can type NM cable be used in a commercial building (restaurant) or is BX required? Does the "Places of Assembly--Article 518" for 100 or more persons have an impact on Type NM cable usage in this application?
Are there any exceptions or special rules?

[ September 17, 2003, 11:10 AM: Message edited by: comet ]

 

[Guest]

Re: Type NM cable use in restaurant

334.12(A)(1)
You cannot use NM in a suspended ceiling. Here's a temporary link to a picture and code reference:
http://neccode.com/onlinetraining/special/codetip.php

This link and image may time out.

[ September 17, 2003, 11:03 AM: Message edited by: awwt ]

 

[karl riley]

Re: Type NM cable use in restaurant

Can anyone quote the Code reference for 334.12(A)(1)? (NM in suspended ceilings).

The 2002 Code book I am looking in is for residential and it leaves out (A)(1). Thanks.

Karl

 

[ryan_618]

Re: Type NM cable use in restaurant

(A)Types NM, NMC, and NMS. Types NM, NMC and NMS cables shall not be used as follows:
(1) As open runs in dropped or suspended ceilings in other than one and two family and multi-family dwellings.

 

[ryan_618]

Re: Type NM cable use in restaurant

The occupant load of 100 is not relevant to your installation and therefore NM cable will not be permitted. Notice that in order to use the exception of 100 occupants or less the room must be incidental (accessory) to the main occupancy. An example of this might be a conference room in an office building.

 

[comet]

Re: Type NM cable use in restaurant

Does this mean that Type MC (BX)cable is required throughout a restaurant installation regardless of the size of the building?

 

[iwire]

Re: Type NM cable use in restaurant

Originally posted by comet:
Does this mean that Type MC (BX)cable is required throughout a restaurant installation regardless of the size of the building?

Yes restaurants require MC, be careful about calling it "BX".

BX has no insulated grounding conductor, MC does.

 

[ryan_618]

Re: Type NM cable use in restaurant

Originally posted by comet:
Does this mean that Type MC (BX)cable is required throughout a restaurant installation regardless of the size of the building?

Unless the restaurant is an accessory to another occupancy and has an occupant load of less than 100. An example might be a cafeteria in an office building. You will want to check with the AHJ first though, as there are a thousand different ways to justify use and occupancy of a building. Hope this helps.

[ September 17, 2003, 05:53 PM: Message edited by: ryan_618 ]

 

[karl riley]

Re: Type NM cable use in restaurant

Thanks for the Code quote, Ryan.

Karl

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Re: Type NM cable use in restaurant

Guys,
I'm missing something. What code section says you can't use NM in a restaurant that does not have an occupancy of more than 99 people?
Don

 

[ryan_618]

Re: Type NM cable use in restaurant

Don, article 518.4 states the wiring methods permitted, 518.2(B) discusses the idea of an accessory occupancy. Notice the word AND.

 

[eprice]

Re: Type NM cable use in restaurant

Maybe I'm missing something too. Even when Article 518 applies, it seems to me that 518.4(B) allows NM to be used if the building code doesn't require the building to be of fire-rated construction.

Notice the scope, section 518.1. For a restaurant that doesn't have an occupant load of at least 100, Article 518 doesn't apply.

[ September 17, 2003, 06:42 PM: Message edited by: eprice ]

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Re: Type NM cable use in restaurant

Guys,
Look at the scope for Article 518. The article only applies to occupancies designed or intended for the assembly of 100 or more persons no matter what use.
Don

 

[justoys]

Re: Type NM cable use in restaurant

I,m not saying it,s right, just throwing my $.02. I just completed a small office 4 months ago, total occupancy might be 5 people, the entire thing is done in RX and not one mention from the AHJ.

 

[pierre]

Re: Type NM cable use in restaurant

Art 518 Places of ASSEMBLY

The key word is assembly. Malls tend to attract more than 100 persons, but not for 'assembly'.Lobbies can hold more than 100 persons also but are not places of assembly.

Assembly- n. a group of people gathered or meeting together.

518.4(B) permits lets say a bathroom down the hall from where people will be gathered to be wired in NM, AC, ENT or RNC if you choose to do so.

Pierre

 

[tom baker]

Re: Type NM cable use in restaurant

An interesting change for the 2005 NEC is in applicable articles, uses permitted will be delted from the text, and only uses not permitted will be lised.