U/G the hardway?

Rockyd

Senior Member
Location
Nevada
Occupation
Retired after 40 years as an electrician.
This struck me as STRANGE...
On a piece of property I recently purchased, I wanted to modify the electrical utility (property just being developed, no houses yet) and found that between the splice boxes, they pulled CIC (cable in a conduit rated for direct burial 1/0 Okonite MV cable) INSIDE of 3" PVC!

This is from splice box to splice box.

Shield appears to be grounded....

I have pulled a lot of cable, but never seen this before. Is there something that I'm missing? Why would someone elect to do something the hardway? Adding pictures so someone can try to make sense of this.....

Wanting to hear opinions as to weather it's even legal?
 

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Little Bill

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Tennessee NEC:2017
Occupation
Electrician
This struck me as STRANGE...
On a piece of property I recently purchased, I wanted to modify the electrical utility (property just being developed, no houses yet) and found that between the splice boxes, they pulled CIC (cable in a conduit rated for direct burial 1/0 Okonite MV cable) INSIDE of 3" PVC!

This is from splice box to splice box.

Shield appears to be grounded....

I have pulled a lot of cable, but never seen this before. Is there something that I'm missing? Why would someone elect to do something the hardway? Adding pictures so someone can try to make sense of this.....

Wanting to hear opinions as to weather it's even legal?
If by "hard way" you mean why did they put DB wire in conduit, that is not hard and is the way a lot is done. Matter of fact, I choose to do it this way with DB Al wire. I've had to repair several pieces of DB Al that had deteriorated because of a nick or puncture of the wire when installed. Conduit is not that much more to add for security, plus the fact you can replace the wire without digging.
 

Hv&Lv

Senior Member
Location
-
Occupation
Engineer/Technician
This struck me as STRANGE...
On a piece of property I recently purchased, I wanted to modify the electrical utility (property just being developed, no houses yet) and found that between the splice boxes, they pulled CIC (cable in a conduit rated for direct burial 1/0 Okonite MV cable) INSIDE of 3" PVC!

This is from splice box to splice box.

Shield appears to be grounded....

I have pulled a lot of cable, but never seen this before. Is there something that I'm missing? Why would someone elect to do something the hardway? Adding pictures so someone can try to make sense of this.....

Wanting to hear opinions as to weather it's even legal?
Legal,
but I agree it’s a little odd to pull a wire that’s encased in PVC and rated for direct burial, in what looks like an HDPE conduit rated for direct burial, in a PVC...

it’s a wire in conduit, in conduit, in conduit...
 

roger

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Fl
Occupation
Electrician
A lot of utilities require a conduit by the customer, and then they pull their own wire into it.
In some areas I have worked the POCO required conduit in areas like driveways and areas that may have something built on them in the future.

Roger
 

Hv&Lv

Senior Member
Location
-
Occupation
Engineer/Technician
A lot of utilities require a conduit by the customer, and then they pull their own wire into it.
That’s what I figure happened after thinking about it once you mentioned that...
The utility required conduit, then their install contractor installed the CIC assembly in the conduit.
we use the CIC sometimes, but not in another conduit. Makes for a great bore assembly.
 
Last edited:

Rockyd

Senior Member
Location
Nevada
Occupation
Retired after 40 years as an electrician.
If by "hard way" you mean why did they put DB wire in conduit, that is not hard and is the way a lot is done. Matter of fact, I choose to do it this way with DB Al wire. I've had to repair several pieces of DB Al that had deteriorated because of a nick or puncture of the wire when installed. Conduit is not that much more to add for security, plus the fact you can replace the wire without digging.
They put the CIC in conduit the whole 538 feet. I would get it if the sleeved at driveways, and other "hard useage" areas. I fail to see the benefit.
 

Hv&Lv

Senior Member
Location
-
Occupation
Engineer/Technician
They put the CIC in conduit the whole 538 feet. I would get it if the sleeved at driveways, and other "hard useage" areas. I fail to see the benefit.
There isn’t. It’s what was on the roll (trailer)..
 

Little Bill

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Tennessee NEC:2017
Occupation
Electrician
They put the CIC in conduit the whole 538 feet. I would get it if the sleeved at driveways, and other "hard useage" areas. I fail to see the benefit.
I didn't see the type of cable you showed when I replied. I was just thinking regular direct bury feeder/service cable.
 

Rockyd

Senior Member
Location
Nevada
Occupation
Retired after 40 years as an electrician.
If by "hard way" you mean why did they put DB wire in conduit, that is not hard and is the way a lot is done. Matter of fact, I choose to do it this way with DB Al wire. I've had to repair several pieces of DB Al that had deteriorated because of a nick or puncture of the wire when installed. Conduit is not that much more to add for security, plus the fact you can replace the wire without digging.
I didn't see the type of cable you showed when I replied. I was just thinking regular direct bury feeder/service cable.
If by "hard way" you mean why did they put DB wire in conduit, that is not hard and is the way a lot is done. Matter of fact, I choose to do it this way with DB Al wire. I've had to repair several pieces of DB Al that had deteriorated because of a nick or puncture of the wire when installed. Conduit is not that much more to add for security, plus the fact you can replace the wire without digging.
The CIC is a direct burial system, providing adequate protection. The initial install was 538 feet. I get having a sleeve for roadway crossings and such in "hard usage' areas, but the whole distance?
 

Rockyd

Senior Member
Location
Nevada
Occupation
Retired after 40 years as an electrician.
The bigger problem is, that the utility has laid out the trunk line to where it would be useful, I need to cut into the middle of it, (and am being denied by the utility) and stub the Schedule 40 PVC pipe up into a splice box to form a 'T' so that I can run the 12.47 Kv perpendicular to the main trunk line. With the PVC ran the whole distance (535 feet) with CIC what did they gain? I get sleeving driveways and such, but it seems to me like a lesson in futility to pull a CIC from Vault yo Vault.

What is wrong with pulling 1/0 cable by itself in the 3" PVC? That, is the way I've always seen it.....
 

Rockyd

Senior Member
Location
Nevada
Occupation
Retired after 40 years as an electrician.
A lot of utilities require a conduit by the customer, and then they pull their own wire into it.
Would have been fine had they pulled the normal 1/0 Okonite into the 3" PVC. I'd even put the kit "L" break or paddle on it, and bolted the termination to it's point if I were allowed.
 
Who knows. Maybe its what they usually use and didnt have any non CIC stuff around or handy. One utility whose territory I have worked in Seems to mostly use CIC. I provide the trench from pole to tranny and they throw the 15KV CIC in.
 

Rockyd

Senior Member
Location
Nevada
Occupation
Retired after 40 years as an electrician.
Where I am at, we have to pay for the install ourselves. I am opting to go with a construction firm that has done a lot of utility work here. I don't mind paying for proper installation, but to even think they can justify billing me for overkill gets a fight from me. The utility does al the conduit, and cable installation, Thinking I will be calling Okonite and Southwire Monday for their installation recommendations, and use that to attempt to change minds.
 
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