Uf wire

bluecollar84

Senior Member
Location
US
Who uses UF wire to wire wall sconces or flood lights on outside wall from indoor switch location ?

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bluecollar84

Senior Member
Location
US
Any outdoor wiring needs to be rated for outdoor wet location and is a outdoor light and the wires in that outdoor box outdoors ? Goes to show you don't know what your talking about buddy

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user 100

Senior Member
Location
texas
Any outdoor wiring needs to be rated for outdoor wet location and is a outdoor light and the wires in that outdoor box outdoors ? Goes to show you don't know what your talking about buddy

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Ok, fair enough.

Now show where it is required that nm that is contained in an inside wall that is feeding an ext lt needs to be outdoor rated.
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
Any outdoor wiring needs to be rated for outdoor wet location and is a outdoor light and the wires in that outdoor box outdoors ? Goes to show you don't know what your talking about buddy

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Well buddy, my wall sconces and flood lights generally have a flush mounted boxes so they are not outside.

As far as surface boxes, enclosures and panels, please show the code reference requiring wet location conductors for those.

I will wait while you look it up. :cool:
 

mbrooke

Batteries Not Included
Location
United States
Occupation
*
Not taking sides, but what about those cases where the NM comes directly out of the siding and the lamp mount covers them?
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
Not taking sides, but what about those cases where the NM comes directly out of the siding and the lamp mount covers them?
In most cases that is violation onto itself.

But honestly it is a weird area of the code. The code requires cables and conductors run in raceways outside to be wet location conductors. It does not do the same for enclosures.

Now lets say the code changes and says the conductors in a outdoor enclosure must be wet location listed conductors. Now you would have a situation with breakers or fuses in enclosures in outdoor locations that the NEC considers 'wet'. I think it would open a whole can of worms that should stay closed. No one is seeing failures with the situation as it is.
 

mbrooke

Batteries Not Included
Location
United States
Occupation
*
In most cases that is violation onto itself.
Perhaps, but inspectors always used to let it slide in my area.


But honestly it is a weird area of the code. The code requires cables and conductors run in raceways outside to be wet location conductors. It does not do the same for enclosures.

Now lets say the code changes and says the conductors in a outdoor enclosure must be wet location listed conductors. Now you would have a situation with breakers or fuses in enclosures in outdoor locations that the NEC considers 'wet'. I think it would open a whole can of worms that should stay closed. No one is seeing failures with the situation as it is.

IMO its not much debatable with THWN, but much so when dealing with NM because the conductors are not marked.
 

mbrooke

Batteries Not Included
Location
United States
Occupation
*
That would be a blatant code violation.
Perhaps, but I am willing to bet millions of homes are wired like that. I know mine is along with my old ones. That and the fact I've done it countless times without thinking.

One question. What section is this in violation of :ashamed1:
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
Perhaps, but inspectors always used to let it slide in my area.
But it makes discussing this other violation meaningless.:D





IMO its not much debatable with THWN, but much so when dealing with NM because the conductors are not marked.
No idea what you are getting at.

We all agree NM is not listed for wet locations, it is specifically prohibited from use in raceways in wet locations.

On the other hand NM is not prohibited from enclosures in wet locations.
 

mbrooke

Batteries Not Included
Location
United States
Occupation
*
But it makes discussing this other violation meaningless.:D

In terms of being a violation, I agree. However it does not change the fact siding companies make products for this application, and the fact millions of none compliant institutions are not failing.







No idea what you are getting at.

We all agree NM is not listed for wet locations, it is specifically prohibited from use in raceways in wet locations.

On the other hand NM is not prohibited from enclosures in wet locations.

One of the reasons NM is not listed is because we have no idea if the conductors themselves are listed for wet locations like THWN is.
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
Perhaps, but I am willing to bet millions of homes are wired like that. I know mine is along with my old ones. That and the fact I've done it countless times without thinking.

One question. What section is this in violation of :ashamed1:
300.15 Boxes, Conduit Bodies, or Fittings —Where Required.

A box shall be installed at each outlet and switch
point for concealed knob-and-tube wiring.
Fittings and connectors shall be used only with the specific
wiring methods for which they are designed and listed.
Where the wiring method is conduit, tubing, Type AC
cable, Type MC cable, Type MI cable, nonmetallic-sheathed
cable, or other cables, a box or conduit body shall be installed
at each conductor splice point, outlet point, switch point, junction
point, termination point, or pull point, unless otherwise
permitted in 300.15(A) through (L).

(J) Luminaires. A box or conduit body shall not be required
where a luminaire is used as a raceway as permitted in 410.64.
Now it looks like at least one of those pictures you posted might have a box that complies with the above code section.

So those conductors are in an enclosure and the NEC does not specifically call for conductors contained inside enclosures in wet locations to be listed for wet locations.
 

user 100

Senior Member
Location
texas
Now lets say the code changes and says the conductors in a outdoor enclosure must be wet location listed conductors. Now you would have a situation with breakers or fuses in enclosures in outdoor locations that the NEC considers 'wet'. I think it would open a whole can of worms that should stay closed. No one is seeing failures with the situation as it is.
And I agree- another pointless requirement that shouldn't see the light of day.

Perhaps, but inspectors always used to let it slide in my area.
Done in a lot of places still doesn't make it compliant.
 
Last edited:

mbrooke

Batteries Not Included
Location
United States
Occupation
*
Now it looks like at least one of those pictures you posted might have a box that complies with the above code section.

So those conductors are in an enclosure and the NEC does not specifically call for conductors contained inside enclosures in wet locations to be listed for wet locations.
But in cases where no enclosure exists (flat vinyl with a hole) am I correct to say that its a wet location? The fixture does not actually seal against the vinyl mount.


Start with 300.15.........



And I agree- another pointless requirement that shouldn't see the light of day.



Done in a lot of places still doesn't make it compliant.

I agree, however it has demonstrated that no actual danger exists.
 

user 100

Senior Member
Location
texas
But in cases where no enclosure exists (flat vinyl with a hole) am I correct to say that its a wet location? The fixture does not actually seal against the vinyl mount.





I agree, however it has demonstrated that no actual danger exists.
If the fixture is identified for the use and is installed per the instructions it is legal.

And you're right there is no danger, until a joint fails and you get a loose connection in close proximity to all that combustible building material.
 
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