So I had a piece of rebar sticking out of the foundation in a garage on a house I just wired for the grounding electrode. It was coming up in a pack of studs so the framers just bent it over out of the wall. So what we did was bent it back into the wall and strapped it. We attached the #4 copper to it and put on a mudring for access. The rebar is out of the wall for about 5'' before it goes back into the wall. The garage will be finished when all said and done. I was just going to leave it up to the framers to get it all the way in the wall if the builder wanted them to. I wasn't about to cut a structural pack of studs and have a framing inspector call it. Long story short the inspector tagged me today saying that "The rebar must be in the wall in a dry location and not exposed to the elements or corrosion. He did not site a code reference. I have never heard of this. How is this different than a ufer ground in a unfinished garage? I have also done many ground clamps on rebar that has been chiseled up in the footing when the original ufer was missed by the concrete crews. I'm sure underground is a "wet location and subject to corrosion" He has passed this twice in the past. Am I missing something??
Ufer ground tag, I'm not sure about this
- Thread starter crtemp
- Start date
- Status
stevenje
Senior Member
- Location
- Yachats Oregon
Take a look at 250.68(C)(3) 2017 NEC
Cow
Senior Member
- Location
- Eastern Oregon
- Occupation
- Electrician
In industrial and ag buildings, I've had them stubbed up through the concrete floor under the panel. Exposed to the world forever with a ground clamp on it. It's not an issue.
Obviously, putting something behind sheetrock doesn't magically prevent corrosion. Run a paintbrush over it or tell him it'll get sprayed with paint when they do the garage walls.
Done. Protected from corrosion.
Obviously, putting something behind sheetrock doesn't magically prevent corrosion. Run a paintbrush over it or tell him it'll get sprayed with paint when they do the garage walls.
Done. Protected from corrosion.
MattS87
Senior Member
- Location
- Yakima, WA
Wasn't cited as a violation but inspector has asked that I put galvanized paint on a ufer. Comes in a spray can, so easy to apply and makes him happy. Works for me.
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
IMO, the inspector is incorrect. There is nothing saying the rebar must be in the wall only that the connection, in this case, must be accessible. Obviously, you made it accessible with the mudring.
Rebar is not allowed to be bent out of the footing into the earth as it will break down there but I have never heard that it would be an issue in a garage.
If the garage was a damp location then why don't we have to use wp plates etc.
Rebar is not allowed to be bent out of the footing into the earth as it will break down there but I have never heard that it would be an issue in a garage.
If the garage was a damp location then why don't we have to use wp plates etc.
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
Here is the code he sited
300.6 (a) (3)
Rebar outside the wall.-Ferrous metal raceways, cable armor, boxes, cable sheathing, cabinets, elbows, couplings, nipples, fittings, supports, and support hardware shall be permitted to be installed in concrete or in direct contact with the earth, or in areas subject to severe corrosive influences where made of material approved for the condition, or where provided with corrosion protection approved for the condition.
300.6 (a) (3)
Rebar outside the wall.-Ferrous metal raceways, cable armor, boxes, cable sheathing, cabinets, elbows, couplings, nipples, fittings, supports, and support hardware shall be permitted to be installed in concrete or in direct contact with the earth, or in areas subject to severe corrosive influences where made of material approved for the condition, or where provided with corrosion protection approved for the condition.
I'm sorry, but I don't consider rebar a ferrous metal raceways, cable armor, boxes, cable sheathing, cabinets, elbows, couplings, nipples, fittings, supports, and support hardware.
And.
To say it can't be in contact with the dirt would be a far stretch to convince me of also.
JAP>
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
Agreed
It is in the listing of the rebar. Rebar will rust and many inspectors will turn it down if the cee is connected to it underground. Why is that hard to believe. Check with some building inspectors- go on some engineering sites to check it out. Of course, you don't have to believe them either.
I can see the rebar rusting, but, a lot would have to happen for the rebar to actually "break down there".
I agree it might eventually rust in half, but probably not in my lifetime.
Oh well, the rebar thing would not be my first choice for a CEE anyway.
JAP>
stevenje
Senior Member
- Location
- Yachats Oregon
I did not fully read the post and thought that the rebar was bent outside of the building and then bent back inside the wall leaving part of the rebar exposed to the elements. My mistake. The code article that I posted does not apply to the original post.
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
I'm with ya on that.
I had a 15' piece of 3/4" rigid run from my house to feed my garage when I first moved in thinking it would last forever.
After about 10 years I dug down to pour concrete and found that there was nothing more than the wire left in the dirt.
The pipe had completely disintegrated around it.
Thanks for the information. I never knew until know the rebar wasn't to come in contact with the earth.
JAP>
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
I'm with ya on that.
I had a 15' piece of 3/4" rigid run from my house to feed my garage when I first moved in thinking it would last forever.
After about 10 years I dug down to pour concrete and found that there was nothing more than the wire left in the dirt.
The pipe had completely disintegrated around it.
Thanks for the information. I never knew until know the rebar wasn't to come in contact with the earth.
JAP>
I remembered this thread while readingup on something and I saw this.
250.66(C)(3) said:
Adamjamma
Senior Member
- Location
- Jamaica and london
Having dealt with all the concrete and rebar homes in Jamaica I can tell you that rebar rusts bad... in salty air like we have in the islands within twenty miles of sea...
So the rules of making sure the rebar is covered by two inches of cement make sense as I have seen it rust.. Twist wire or baling wire rusts in a year in the air.. but is still good twenty years later in the concrete... even in roof decking... Dont know how long after that as only damaged structure I have dealt with was twenty years old.. Concrete was breaking down due to improper mix so we had to break it loose and re pour the deck... customer had been complaining of water leaking inside..lol...
But, I have seen clear poly spray used over connections before and keep the rebar from rusting. Of course, we also used vaseline.
So the rules of making sure the rebar is covered by two inches of cement make sense as I have seen it rust.. Twist wire or baling wire rusts in a year in the air.. but is still good twenty years later in the concrete... even in roof decking... Dont know how long after that as only damaged structure I have dealt with was twenty years old.. Concrete was breaking down due to improper mix so we had to break it loose and re pour the deck... customer had been complaining of water leaking inside..lol...
But, I have seen clear poly spray used over connections before and keep the rebar from rusting. Of course, we also used vaseline.
Cavie
Senior Member
- Location
- SW Florida
- Status