ufer ground

[nyerinfl]

I'm currently doing a resi addition plus a new pool cabana house. The new 400A service will be mounted on the side of the main house. I will take my ufer ground from the footing of the main house and bring it to my disconnects. My question is this: On the cabana house (seperate structure), do I also need to take an additional ufer ground from this footing as well? And assuming I do does this need to be brought back and bonded to the main service equipment with the other ufer? The cabana has a sub panel on the inside, which recieves its feed from the service equipment located on the main house. I left my codebook at the office, so please elaborate any answers, thanks.

 

[steelersman]

I'm currently doing a resi addition plus a new pool cabana house. The new 400A service will be mounted on the side of the main house. I will take my ufer ground from the footing of the main house and bring it to my disconnects. My question is this: On the cabana house (seperate structure), do I also need to take an additional ufer ground from this footing as well? And assuming I do does this need to be brought back and bonded to the main service equipment with the other ufer? The cabana has a sub panel on the inside, which recieves its feed from the service equipment located on the main house. I left my codebook at the office, so please elaborate any answers, thanks.

All you should need is your 4 wire to the subpanel and keep the ground bar and neutral bar seperate from each other and make sure your neutral bar is not bonded to the subpanel enclosure.

 

[infinity]

All you should need is your 4 wire to the subpanel and keep the ground bar and neutral bar separate from each other and make sure your neutral bar is not bonded to the subpanel enclosure.

The subpanel in the separate structure will also require a GES. You will need to connect the CEE in the separate structure to the EG bar in the subpanel.

 

[steelersman]

The subpanel in the separate structure will also require a GES. You will need to connect the CEE in the separate structure to the EG bar in the subpanel.

That would be in the 08 code? What do those abbreviations stand for?

 

[chris kennedy]

Or a NEC reference.

250.32 Buildings or Structures Supplied by a Feeder(s) or Branch Circuit(s).
(A) Grounding Electrode. Building(s) or structure(s) supplied by feeder(s) or branch circuit(s) shall have a grounding electrode or grounding electrode system installed in accordance with Part III of Article 250. The grounding electrode conductor(s) shall be connected in accordance with 250.32(B) or (C). Where there is no existing grounding electrode, the grounding electrode(s) required in 250.50 shall be installed.
Exception: A grounding electrode shall not be required where only a single branch circuit, including a multiwire branch circuit, supplies the building or structure and the branch circuit includes an equipment grounding conductor for grounding the normally non–current-carrying metal parts of equipment.

steeleresman this is 08.

 

[stickboy1375]

That would be in the 08 code? What do those abbreviations stand for?

GES Grounding Electrode System
CEE Concrete Encased Electrode
EG Equipment Ground

 

[steelersman]

Or a NEC reference.



steeleresman this is 08.

ok thanks. Are any states enforcing 08 yet? I know around here we never install ground rods for sub panels. I know VA isn't enforcing it yet.

 

[stickboy1375]

ok thanks. Are any states enforcing 08 yet? I know around here we never install ground rods for sub panels. I know VA isn't enforcing it yet.

If you install a panel in a detached structure, then 250.32 takes effect. 250.32 has been around awhile.

 

[M. D.]

ok thanks. Are any states enforcing 08 yet? I know around here we never install ground rods for sub panels. I know VA isn't enforcing it yet.

this link should give the states that are on the 08
List of NEC adopted versions by state

 

[M. D.]

If you install a panel in a detached structure, then 250.32 takes effect. 250.32 has been around awhile.

Yeah ,..and Virginia is on the 05 so the electrode is required at the detached structure..

May be he is referring to the use of the neutral conductor that was removed in 08

http://ecmweb.com/nec/code_top50nec_102506/

Based 05 NEC
When an equipment grounding (bonding) conductor is not run to the building or structure disconnecting means, the building or structure disconnecting means can be bonded to a grounded neutral conductor installed with the feeder conductors. This is only permitted where there?s no continuous metallic path between buildings and structures, and ground-fault protection of equipment isn?t installed on the supply side of the feeder.

Where the grounded neutral feeder conductor serves as the effective ground-fault current path, it must be sized no smaller than the larger of:
(1) The maximum unbalanced neutral load in accordance with 220.61.
(2) The available fault current in accordance with 250.122.


Caution: Using the grounded neutral conductor as the effective ground-fault current path poses potentially dangerous consequences and should only be done after careful consideration. Even if the initial installation doesn?t result in dangerous objectionable current on metal parts, there remains the possibility that a future installation of metal piping or cables between the buildings or structures could create unwanted parallel neutral current paths.
My preferred practice is to not use the grounded neutral conductor as the effective ground-fault current path, but to install an equipment grounding (bonding) conductor with the feeder conductors to the building or structure in accordance with 250.32(B)(1).

 

[steelersman]

Yeah ,..and Virginia is on the 05 so the electrode is required at the detached structure..

May be he is referring to the use of the neutral conductor that was removed in 08

http://ecmweb.com/nec/code_top50nec_102506/

why are they saying or assuming that the building or structure would have a disconnecting means? If it's a sub panel the only disconecting means will be the breaker in the main panel that is supplying the sub panel.

 

[JohnJ0906]

why are they saying or assuming that the building or structure would have a disconnecting means? If it's a sub panel the only disconecting means will be the breaker in the main panel that is supplying the sub panel.

225.31 - A disconnect is required at a seperate structure.

 

[stickboy1375]

why are they saying or assuming that the building or structure would have a disconnecting means? If it's a sub panel the only disconecting means will be the breaker in the main panel that is supplying the sub panel.

Oh boy... how many have you done without them? :wink: :grin:

 

[tryinghard]

Six handles or less still qualifies as a disconnect right?