Ufer/Water pipe bonding

[Bama_Electrical]

Question about bonding. I have a 400 AMP service with (2) 200 AMP disconnects, ufer in the concrete and copper water pipe in the attic. POCO requires a ground rod bonded at the meter base and the ufer is in a different location, so it must be bonded, but not close enough in proximity to tie it in with the ground rods. Question is, should I bond the ufer and copper water pipe in both service disconnects or is 1 sufficient?

 

[augie47]

If you are unable to connect your GEC ahead of your panels, you would need a GEC to each panel. You can elect to run separate conductors from each panel to the electrodes or you can run a common electrode to the panel location and split bolt a jumper into each panel.
You would size the "common" GEC based on the 400 amp service with the jumper based on the service conductor to each panel..

 

[infinity]

Question is, should I bond the ufer and copper water pipe in both service disconnects or is 1 sufficient?

You could just run a bonding jumper from the CEE to the GEC for the water pipe electrode and split-bolt them together.

 

[Bama_Electrical]

You could just run a bonding jumper from the CEE to the GEC for the water pipe electrode and split-bolt them together.

The water pipe is in the attic, so the actual GEC will be 2 ground rods. Will have to bond the CEE at the disconnect. Was curious since there are (2) disconnects if the CEE should be bonded at both disconnects or if bonding in one of them is ok?

 

[LarryFine]

Generally, you bond to either the service neutral before it divides, with a GEC sized for the entire service, or to both of the individual disconnects, each GEC sized for each disconnect, which optionally may then connect to one GEC sized for the entire service.

You're lucky that you can land any GEC in the meter base; we're not allowed to do that here.

 

[infinity]

The water pipe is in the attic, so the actual GEC will be 2 ground rods. Will have to bond the CEE at the disconnect. Was curious since there are (2) disconnects if the CEE should be bonded at both disconnects or if bonding in one of them is ok?

So the water pipe does not qualify as an electrode and only requires bonding? The GEC for the rods goes directly to the meter?

 

[Bama_Electrical]

So the water pipe does not qualify as an electrode and only requires bonding? The GEC for the rods goes directly to the meter?

That’s correct. Here’s a diagram

 

[LarryFine]

As I see it, unless you can connect them in the meter base, both the Ufer and the water pipe GECs need to land in both disconnects.

The Ufer GEC need not be larger than #4cu. What size is the existing water pipe GEC?

 

[Bama_Electrical]

As I see it, unless you can connect them in the meter base, both the Ufer and the water pipe GECs need to land in both disconnects.

The Ufer GEC need not be larger than #4cu. What size is the existing water pipe GEC?

Water pipe is 2awg and will be split bolt jumpered into each panel. So the ufer will be ok to split bolt jumper into each panel as well?

 

[LarryFine]

Water pipe is 2awg and will be split bolt jumpered into each panel. So the ufer will be ok to split bolt jumper into each panel as well?

Correctamundo.

 

[Bama_Electrical]

Correctamundo.

Thank you.

 

[Little Bill]

Does that copper water pipe enter the ground?

 

[Bama_Electrical]

Does that copper water pipe enter the ground?

It doesn’t. Only in the attic. Pex from well to slab, copper from there.

 

[Little Bill]

What does the water pipe supply?
It's stupid to require ground rods when there is a Uffer.

 

[Bama_Electrical]

What does the water pipe supply?
It's stupid to require ground rods when there is a Uffer.

Water pipe supplies water throughout the house, but copper is only in the attic. The issue here is the poco requires a ground rod prior to the meter base. The cee/ufer is not in close proximity to the the MB and must be bonded.

 

[david]

I'm glad you pointed out what the GEC was sized on PA is behind on code cycles I'm going to have to read where it changed from the largest service entrance cable

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