uh-oh!

[jes25]

I'm doin the finish on a pretty upscale home. The master bed fireplace is all walnut. The carpenters needed some cut in boxes to make holes for the sconces on the fireplace. They didn't want to cut around boxes fastened to the fire place structure, so we used cut ins. Problem is I gave them those stupid blue round cut ins from home depot which apparently are 4" and of course the sconces don't cover a 4" hole. Expensive mistake. I guess I should have used a 3" pan or something, but I don't think you can legally put 1 14-2 in them without going over box fill.

Does anyone have any ideas how to fix it with out redoing the whole fireplace? I am thinking custom adaptor or something.

What do you do in a similiar situation?

 

[nakulak]

buy a bigger sconce

 

[spdtrx]

Puddy is my buddy.:grin:

 

[Dennis Alwon]

What do you do in a similiar situation?

I would see if the homeowners would go for a nice piece of walnut base behind the sconce and then drill a new hole.

 

[LarryFine]

See if the carpenter can make a matching plate, sort of a wooden fender washer, that would function like the Arlington fixture siding blocks. And, of course, next time, wait for the sconce to arrive.

Puddy is my buddy.:grin:

Well, putty make me nutty.

 

[SEO]

And, of course, next time, wait for the sconce to arrive.

.

Thats good advice. Some of the sconces require 3.25" octagon boxes or gem boxes so that they will be covered by the canopy.

 

[electricmanscott]

I never ever use a 4" round box for wall fixtures unless I have the fixture in my hands. Guess how I learned not to make this mistake. :roll:

 

[Dennis Alwon]

See if the carpenter can make a matching plate, sort of a wooden fender washer, that would function like the Arlington fixture siding blocks.

Is there an echo in here?:grin: I believe that was what I was saying by using a walnut base behind the sconce.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I never ever use a 4" round box for wall fixtures unless I have the fixture in my hands. Guess how I learned not to make this mistake. :roll:

I agree. If I use a pop in it would be a 3 5/8" hole but some sconces actually demand a switch box.

 

[norcal]

Quote:
Originally Posted by electricmanscott View Post
I never ever use a 4" round box for wall fixtures unless I have the fixture in my hands. Guess how I learned not to make this mistake.



The above quote is true statement of experience.
Those Carlon cut-in boxes are about as useful as a screen door in the hull of a submarine, and the fact is any Carlon box screams big box store or DIY.

 

[Sierrasparky]

I never ever use a 4" round box for wall fixtures unless I have the fixture in my hands. Guess how I learned not to make this mistake. :roll:

That's so weird my supply house only has 3/0 box's w and w/o hangers. I had two jobs in a row where the fixture hardware would not fit in a 3/0 box. I had 12 fixtures in one house and a few in the other. For all my wall sconces I install a 4/0 now and have not been stuck since. Guess I'm lucky.

 

[infinity]

Is this the box? Is the outer flange 4.5" or 4"? I would think that a 4" metal octagon box would work in a 4" hole. Are you saying that the outer dimension of the sconce canopy is less than 4"?

 

[billsnuff]

Well, putty make me nutty.

Larry, does that mean you're our

I'd be asking the carpenter for help.

 

[jes25]

Is this the box? Is the outer flange 4.5" or 4"? I would think that a 4" metal octagon box would work in a 4" hole. Are you saying that the outer dimension of the sconce canopy is less than 4"?

Thats the one. The canopy of the sconce is just over 3". They just barely by like an 1/8 cover a 3" round.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Thats the one. The canopy of the sconce is just over 3". They just barely by like an 1/8 cover a 3" round.

You may need to use an old work switch box but you need to watch art. 314.27 exception

 

[Ohmy]

Thats the one. The canopy of the sconce is just over 3". They just barely by like an 1/8 cover a 3" round.

Yes. we have ran into this same problem many a time. The fiber p & S cut-in is the way to go. I will say this about the HD boxes, they don't go anywhere once you put them in and they are really forgiving on your hole cutout.

 

[JWCELECTRIC]

Find a nice place in your home to install some fancy wall sconces and tell your wife you were planning them as a gift. Then go buy the bigger brother of the one your are taking home with bigger canopy. Then when thaey add more stuff for you to complete add in the difference.

 

[al hildenbrand]

You may need to use an old work switch box but you need to watch art. 314.27 exception

That's a great caution. The six pound limit can easily be exceeded by the common highend home intuitive aesthetic. "The more it weighs, the higher the quality."

I rarely do more than leave the cable coiled behind the panel, until the luminaire is on the job site and in my hand. I then get the "placement" from the principal designer. At that point, the construction of the luminaire (lamp up or down, etc.) finally gives me the center lines of the canopy.

Even then, I occasionally have to struggle with canopies that are so "artful" that they won't even cover a metal, plaster-eared GEM box, let alone, the kerf around the cutin. God forbid that I get a surface splinter to fly loose.

 

[jes25]

Well it ended up just OK. The homeowner had a similiar fixture, from the same company, going in somewhere else that had a bigger backplate. We just swapped the backplates and it worked out. I am still not a fan of cut-ins for this type of installation, since the canopy design doesn't allow for the 1/16" lip that sits on the wall, leaving a small gap behind the fixture. He probably won't notice that though................I hope.

 

[al hildenbrand]

the canopy design doesn't allow for the 1/16" lip that sits on the wall

You said this was on a wood panel, no?

I carry my own sharp wood chisel exactly for this situation. Score the wood on the outline of the plaster ear and pop out and smooth off just enough depth for the ears and the screw heads. That's for a GEM box. Your round rework boxes will take more time, but the idea is the same.