ul aproval

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tdaug53

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Does all new machinery coming to the US have to be UL stamped and inspected? We have new machines arriving and have CE stamping but not UL stamping. I was asked while in Germany why our machines were not built to UL standards when all of the other machines for North America had to be built to UL standards. They showed me the differance and it would add alot of cost to the selling cost of the machine.
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This adds a lot of cost to the US manufacturers as well. Yes, most of the time the NRTL (nationally recognized testing laboratory) listing mark has to either be on the equipment or a field evaluation has to be done in order for the AHJ (authority having jurisdiction) to approve the installation.

By the way, welcome to the forum. :smile:
 
tdaug53 said:
Does all new machinery coming to the US have to be UL stamped and inspected? We have new machines arriving and have CE stamping but not UL stamping. I was asked while in Germany why our machines were not built to UL standards when all of the other machines for North America had to be built to UL standards. They showed me the differance and it would add alot of cost to the selling cost of the machine.
Thanks
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UL does not typically list, inspect or stamp industrial machinery. They do list control panels for industrial machines.

The initial cost of getting the authority from UL to list a control panel is fairly high. The added cost to each unit is not much at all.
 
So I guess this means that since we are not in yhe city and have no county or state inspectors that the machine can arrive and be installed on the CE approval?
 
As to the necessity, that varies from state to state. Some states, such as California, will not allow electric machinery to be connected unless it bears an NRTL label of some sort, UL just being the most common one. The National Electric Code does not specifically say that you have to have it, although it is implied or suggested in several places. But each state has their own Electrical Code and while most just automatically adopt the NEC, many also add on their own provisions such as California adding on the NRTL requirement. There are a few states left who do not have similar rules, but it is fewer and fewer each year.

So bottom line, if your German machinery mfr want to be able to sell their products without worrying about which state it is going to, then they had better look into getting an NRTL listing. The consequence is, a customer buys one ASSuming it has it and gets red-tagged by an inspector when he tries to get it connected. Then, the cost for field approval is astronomical (if even possible)!
 
tdaug53 said:
So I guess this means that since we are not in yhe city and have no county or state inspectors that the machine can arrive and be installed on the CE approval?
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CE is completely and totally meaningless in the US.

Most places do not require any kind of NRTL listing at all. A few do, and the number is growing.

If you are in an area that requires it, it is much more cost effective to do it up front, rather than trying to do it later on.
 
Jraef said:
Here is a good read for you...

http://regulatorydesign.com/Is NRTL Marking Required by Law.doc
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A marketing brochure from a company making a living off getting products listed does not seem like a good source of definitive information.

In any case, it is usually not a big deal or much of an extra expense these days for machine manufacturers to get industrial control panels listed. It rarely changes the design much and the extra labeling is not a big deal. In fact, it is not unusual for companies that started UL listing of their control panels to find that they were already compliant with UL requirements, other than some labeling requirements.
 
I have a simular situation, but on the other side.

I am working on a panel for a machine that is going to the USA, we are based in the UK.

The customer in the US asked for a exact copy of a machine we made for their sister company in the UK. During the commercial meetings, they never once asked for the panel to be UL approved or to even use UL approved components.

However, we built the panel using all UL listed components, etc ... even bought UL approved motors on a very long lead time and at extra cost.

I don't know if the customer will have problems when the machine arrives, however if they do, i guess it will be at their cost as we have exceeded what was expected in the contract. We shall see!
 
JonR said:
I have a simular situation, but on the other side.

I am working on a panel for a machine that is going to the USA, we are based in the UK.

The customer in the US asked for a exact copy of a machine we made for their sister company in the UK. During the commercial meetings, they never once asked for the panel to be UL approved or to even use UL approved components.

However, we built the panel using all UL listed components, etc ... even bought UL approved motors on a very long lead time and at extra cost.

I don't know if the customer will have problems when the machine arrives, however if they do, i guess it will be at their cost as we have exceeded what was expected in the contract. We shall see!
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does UL even list motors? in any case, the most that anyone would expect is a UL listed control panel and the motors are not part of the control panel.
 
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