UL listing - acquiring it??

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sundowner

sundowner

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West Wisconsin
So long story short - the department is getting a donated piece of industrial equipment - it will reside in a laboratory with other pieces of similar equipment which students and faculty will operate. My boss's boss thinks it is necessary to have a UL listing on it. (maybe for some safety concerns??)

I don't really know if it is or not - my question is - what does it take to get a piece of equipment "UL listed" and what is the process - Is the campus required to in fact get a piece of equipment listed?? I'm not very familiar with this road as I've never been down it...


Thanks
 
In many jurisdictions, listing by a Nationally Recognized Testing Lab (NRTL) is required by code if the installation is going to be permitted and inspected. UL is just the best known of the NRTLs. Many institutions and companies will also have requirements above and beyond the local codes because of insurance underwriting (which is what UL stands for, Underwriters Laboratories). Bottom line if you don't know for sure and your boss tells you it needs it, don't fight it.

That said, some MACHINES have UL listing categories, for others, it's just the ELECTRICAL portion that must bear a listing. If it's just the electrical portion that needs it, you can take it to a UL508A panel shop and they can give you a quote to bring it up to the standards and apply their label to it.
 
sundowner said:
So long story short - the department is getting a donated piece of industrial equipment - it will reside in a laboratory with other pieces of similar equipment which students and faculty will operate. My boss's boss thinks it is necessary to have a UL listing on it. (maybe for some safety concerns??)

I don't really know if it is or not - my question is - what does it take to get a piece of equipment "UL listed" and what is the process - Is the campus required to in fact get a piece of equipment listed?? I'm not very familiar with this road as I've never been down it...


Thanks
Click to expand...

A couple of things first. A piece of equipment can not become "listed" by UL or any other NRTL in the field. You can, however, have equipment "field evaluated" by UL or any recognized NRTL. This can be expensive and often requires modifications to the equipment to meet the standards being applied in the field evaluation. Field evals generally start in the low thousands of $ to many thousands depending on the size, complexity and location of the equipment.
Depending on what the product is, listed products or field evaluated products can be an NEC, insurance, AHJ or owner requirement.
 
Jraef said:
In many jurisdictions, listing by a Nationally Recognized Testing Lab (NRTL) is required by code if the installation is going to be permitted and inspected. UL is just the best known of the NRTLs. Many institutions and companies will also have requirements above and beyond the local codes because of insurance underwriting (which is what UL stands for, Underwriters Laboratories). Bottom line if you don't know for sure and your boss tells you it needs it, don't fight it.

That said, some MACHINES have UL listing categories, for others, it's just the ELECTRICAL portion that must bear a listing. If it's just the electrical portion that needs it, you can take it to a UL508A panel shop and they can give you a quote to bring it up to the standards and apply their label to it.
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A 508A Industrial control panel shop can only build a 508A industrial control panel. They can't List other products.

Under the Scope of 508A it states in part

An industrial control panel does not include an evaluation of the controlled equipment such as motors, heaters, lighting, and other loads connected to power circuits. Unless specifically noted on the wiring diagram of the industrial control panel, an industrial control panel does not include equipment mounted remotely from the panel and connected via a wiring systems or equipment field installed on or within the industrial control panel.
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Most likely the equipment that the OP is talking about will have more than 508A apply to it.

Chris
 
sundowner said:
So long story short - the department is getting a donated piece of industrial equipment - it will reside in a laboratory with other pieces of similar equipment which students and faculty will operate. My boss's boss thinks it is necessary to have a UL listing on it. (maybe for some safety concerns??)

I don't really know if it is or not - my question is - what does it take to get a piece of equipment "UL listed" and what is the process - Is the campus required to in fact get a piece of equipment listed?? I'm not very familiar with this road as I've never been down it...


Thanks
Click to expand...

An existing piece of equipment that is not Listed can't be Listed after the fact. The product can be Field evaluated to see if it meets that applicable Standards for that piece of equipment.

Chris
 
You are right in that a control panel cannot be listed in the field. But he can remove the control panel and send it to a panel shop, who can redesign it (if necessary) to meet UL508A and apply their label to it. I made a living doing that for European machinery for a decade. The only tricky part was when it had some oddball component that was not listed and I had to find a listed equivalent, or if nothing was available, go through the expensive machinations to be able to use it and list the panel.
 
Jraef said:
You are right in that a control panel cannot be listed in the field. But he can remove the control panel and send it to a panel shop, who can redesign it (if necessary) to meet UL508A and apply their label to it. I made a living doing that for European machinery for a decade. The only tricky part was when it had some oddball component that was not listed and I had to find a listed equivalent, or if nothing was available, go through the expensive machinations to be able to use it and list the panel.
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Correct, the Control Panel on the machine can be sent to a 508A shop and rebuilt to meet 508A and marked at the shop. The Control Panel itself would then be Listed, but that would not apply to the equipment itself, if that equipment has a specific standard that it would have to meet.

Chris
 
raider1 said:
Correct, the Control Panel on the machine can be sent to a 508A shop and rebuilt to meet 508A and marked at the shop. The Control Panel itself would then be Listed, but that would not apply to the equipment itself, if that equipment has a specific standard that it would have to meet.

Chris
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But the UL tag on the control panel may be enough to keep management happy!:)
 
raider1 said:
True, but there could be some safety issues if components and equipment that have specific safety standards don't meet those standards.

Chris
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But those standards will be independent and exclusive from the industrial control panel which is his main concern. I would assume that his boss was concern about "electrical" safety which holds true since the panel shop would have to redesign the panel to meet UL standards in terms of electrical ratings for all the components and wiring installed inside. The panel itself will bear a SCCR tag which is very important in terms of electrical safety in the workplace. Even if the enclosure is not rated as an UL recognized Type, simply it wont be accepted for an UL listing.
 
The 2005 NFPA-70 Handbook describes the insurance industry as an Authority Having Jurisdiction (AHJ) for "approved" equipment.

The handbook elaborates on scope of authority the Ins. Industry has, from the definition of AHJ found in Art.100's Informational Note:. It appears, "For insurance purposes", forensic adjusters are code inspectors, enforcers, and can define what is "approved", per 90.7 & 110.2. While courts rule on the industry's behalf, Insurance plaintiffs shape the law that denies claims with any code, listing, license, or workers comp. violations.
 
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it sounds like the panel is not currently installed and field evaluation is moot.

the best advise in this thread is to send the control panel to a UL508A shop and get a quote to have it evaluated and modified, if necessary. someone will have to perform electrical design to install the panel as well. you might be able to send a few good pictures to get a price to evaluate, instead of paying for freight (both ways if you decide to not modify it). they cannot evaluate through pictures though. they have to verify listing of each component and check wiring and markings, among other things.

GoldDigger said:
But the UL tag on the control panel may be enough to keep management happy!:)
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agreed, they don't want to be liable for an electrocution of a student from unlisted equipment. :eek:
 
gr33n said:
But those standards will be independent and exclusive from the industrial control panel which is his main concern. I would assume that his boss was concern about "electrical" safety which holds true since the panel shop would have to redesign the panel to meet UL standards in terms of electrical ratings for all the components and wiring installed inside. The panel itself will bear a SCCR tag which is very important in terms of electrical safety in the workplace. Even if the enclosure is not rated as an UL recognized Type, simply it wont be accepted for an UL listing.
Click to expand...

We don't know what the industrial machine that the OP is talking about is. If the industrial machine consists of 4 motors located remote from an industrial control panel for example, UL 508A would only cover the industrial control panel and not the motors that the control panel controls.

Chris
 
is there an O&M manual for the equipment that lists the approvals, part numbers for motors, etc?

the approvals for a motor can be determined by looking at the nameplate.
 
Ul listing..

Ul listing..

Thanks guys

As it sits right the donating company is goin to make arrangements to get this piece to the site. Once here and ready to hook up - it will then be evaluated - its all the way up to the attny's. I think this will be a million miles from my "to do" list -

The last time this happened was a few years back and to go through what was required last time was right around 6600 bucks- the dept. will freak out!!

Who knows!!

Thanks for the replies guys!!
 
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