UL Listing
- Thread starter adams27
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petersonra
Senior Member
- Location
- Northern illinois
- Occupation
- engineer
Re: UL Listing
it does not change the listing at all.
it might violate the listing though.
it does not change the listing at all.
it might violate the listing though.
- Location
- Wisconsin
- Occupation
- PE (Retired) - Power Systems
Re: UL Listing
Only the AHJ can make the decision whether a field modified device is acceptable or not. According to 90.7, the UL listing is only a basis for approval not a requirement.
UL would probably send someone out to the device to examine the modifications before passing judgement.
And I do hope you are talking about extending the standard appliance cord and not using a seperate extension cord.
Only the AHJ can make the decision whether a field modified device is acceptable or not. According to 90.7, the UL listing is only a basis for approval not a requirement.
UL would probably send someone out to the device to examine the modifications before passing judgement.
And I do hope you are talking about extending the standard appliance cord and not using a seperate extension cord.
petersonra
Senior Member
- Location
- Northern illinois
- Occupation
- engineer
Re: UL Listing
generally, plug and cord connected equipment is outside of the NEC's scope, and thus outside of the ahj's authority.
that does not mean an electrical inspector might not point out something that he considers to be a bad idea.
personally, i am not overjoyed with the idea of lengthening the cord on most appliances. it just seems like you are asking for trouble.
generally, plug and cord connected equipment is outside of the NEC's scope, and thus outside of the ahj's authority.
that does not mean an electrical inspector might not point out something that he considers to be a bad idea.
personally, i am not overjoyed with the idea of lengthening the cord on most appliances. it just seems like you are asking for trouble.
pierre
Senior Member
- Location
- Westchester County, New York
Re: UL Listing
Changing this cord to a longer cord may not cause any problems.
The reason that the Testing Labs exist is to test this type of equipment.
I do not suggest this though and one way to think of it is:
210.50(C)
(C) Appliance Outlets. Appliance receptacle outlets installed in a dwelling unit for specific appliances, such as laundry equipment, shall be installed within 1.8 m (6 ft) of
the intended location of the appliance.
This requirement is because the standard for cords for some appliances is 6 ft. For countertop type appliances, the standard is 2 ft - hence the 4 foot requirement for countertop receptacles.
Changing this cord to a longer cord may not cause any problems.
The reason that the Testing Labs exist is to test this type of equipment.
I do not suggest this though and one way to think of it is:
210.50(C)
(C) Appliance Outlets. Appliance receptacle outlets installed in a dwelling unit for specific appliances, such as laundry equipment, shall be installed within 1.8 m (6 ft) of
the intended location of the appliance.
This requirement is because the standard for cords for some appliances is 6 ft. For countertop type appliances, the standard is 2 ft - hence the 4 foot requirement for countertop receptacles.
- Location
- Wisconsin
- Occupation
- PE (Retired) - Power Systems
Re: UL Listing
adams27,
You have changed the question to "will the manufacturer consider it modified". Don't look in the NEC, don't ask UL - check with the manufacturer.
adams27,
You have changed the question to "will the manufacturer consider it modified". Don't look in the NEC, don't ask UL - check with the manufacturer.
Re: UL Listing
Assuming that it is of the same gauge and type and jacket one would assume that it wouldn't change anything. But the word "length" is of conductor relates to voltage drop and the proper operation of the device, any heat generated by the cord for its insulation classified in the UL listing.
Granted, one could step up in gauge size to compensate, i.e. "belt and suspenders" so to speak. But the fact remains where does UL draw the line on modifications even though we know for a fact that we have assured that the modification that we have made were well thought out and justified. What qualification does must have before you would be unqualified even if licensed?
I am a firm believer that a good electrician is perfectly capable of using good judgement in making a modification as you are describing.
Assuming that it is of the same gauge and type and jacket one would assume that it wouldn't change anything. But the word "length" is of conductor relates to voltage drop and the proper operation of the device, any heat generated by the cord for its insulation classified in the UL listing.
Granted, one could step up in gauge size to compensate, i.e. "belt and suspenders" so to speak. But the fact remains where does UL draw the line on modifications even though we know for a fact that we have assured that the modification that we have made were well thought out and justified. What qualification does must have before you would be unqualified even if licensed?
- Location
- Bremerton, Washington
- Occupation
- Master Electrician
Re: UL Listing
The correct solution would be to install a receptacle such that a longer cord would not be required. Extension cords are for temporary wiring, and are the cause of many fires when used incorrectly.
The correct solution would be to install a receptacle such that a longer cord would not be required. Extension cords are for temporary wiring, and are the cause of many fires when used incorrectly.
pierre
Senior Member
- Location
- Westchester County, New York
Re: UL Listing
"Up sizing the cord and to a better grade ie SO and adding a couple feet AND putting on a GOOD plug (not those molded things) I think is better."
Dan
Do you know if it is better? Have you performed some type of test, such as the testing laboratories do. That is the reason they exist, and it removes all liability from you the installer.
One of the things I have learned in my days in this industry, is to try and reduce my liability as much as possible.
"Up sizing the cord and to a better grade ie SO and adding a couple feet AND putting on a GOOD plug (not those molded things) I think is better."
Dan
Do you know if it is better? Have you performed some type of test, such as the testing laboratories do. That is the reason they exist, and it removes all liability from you the installer.
One of the things I have learned in my days in this industry, is to try and reduce my liability as much as possible.
Re: UL Listing
All I know is by using good SO cord adequately sized (and in some cases oversized) and with a good plug I have had no problems.
Can't argue about the liability. Doesn't matter if I like the situation or not it is definitely here to stay. Seems like no matter what you do the liability gremlin is there.
All I know is by using good SO cord adequately sized (and in some cases oversized) and with a good plug I have had no problems.
Can't argue about the liability. Doesn't matter if I like the situation or not it is definitely here to stay. Seems like no matter what you do the liability gremlin is there.
jwelectric
Senior Member
- Location
- North Carolina
Re: UL Listing
Yep, that liability is a awful thing to come up with when you broke and ain?t got no beer money.
Now I know that this is going to sound a little crazy but I don?t write the laws. In the state of NC you can?t get a tag unless you prove you have liability. They don?t require that you have all that other type but liability is required before you can buy a license tag.
Yep, that liability is a awful thing to come up with when you broke and ain?t got no beer money.
petersonra
Senior Member
- Location
- Northern illinois
- Occupation
- engineer
Re: UL Listing
a molded plug is almost certainly "better" in many cases than one made up in the field. a machine is capable of making the same plug over and over again, exactly the same. no human can do that.
and many of the plugs you might use to replace such a cord/plug are considerably larger, and might well create somewhat of a hazard as they stick out farther from the wall. potentially encouraging someone to push a refrigerator into it hard enough to cause damage.
my suggestion is to just buy a molded cord set if you plan to replace the cord. they are readily available in whatever length and gauge you want to use.
but my first choice would be to install an outlet close enough that it was unnecessary to have a longer cord.
an extension cord for this type of application is a really bad idea, but replacing the existing cord might not be such a terrible thing.
just don't splice on to the end of the existing cord if you do this. remove the existing cord and run the new one in its place.
[ October 17, 2005, 10:19 AM: Message edited by: petersonra ]
a molded plug is almost certainly "better" in many cases than one made up in the field. a machine is capable of making the same plug over and over again, exactly the same. no human can do that.
and many of the plugs you might use to replace such a cord/plug are considerably larger, and might well create somewhat of a hazard as they stick out farther from the wall. potentially encouraging someone to push a refrigerator into it hard enough to cause damage.
my suggestion is to just buy a molded cord set if you plan to replace the cord. they are readily available in whatever length and gauge you want to use.
but my first choice would be to install an outlet close enough that it was unnecessary to have a longer cord.
an extension cord for this type of application is a really bad idea, but replacing the existing cord might not be such a terrible thing.
just don't splice on to the end of the existing cord if you do this. remove the existing cord and run the new one in its place.
[ October 17, 2005, 10:19 AM: Message edited by: petersonra ]
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