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UL508A / 409 Deadfront Metal Gauge

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brycenesbitt

Senior Member
Location
United States
Ugh, not finding this super quick. For a UL508A / 409 panel-board, if it has a deadfront, what metal gauge must it be?
Anyone have a quick reference to that standard? Thx.
 

petersonra

Senior Member
Location
Northern illinois
Occupation
engineer
You can assemble something under UL508a that has circuit breakers in it, and might well perform some of the same functions as a panelboard but it will be listed as something else and might well not be accepted as a panelboard substitute by the AHJ.

I don't recall dead front as something addressed in the UL508a standard.

There is nothing to prevent one from taking an existing enclosure and mounting a shelf behind it to so a CB can be mounted directly behind the door with cutouts in the door to access it.

I also have been known to have a sheet metal bracket made that has the CB mounted behind it that fits through a rectangular slot in a panel. I think I used 12 or 14 gauge, but I don't recall any specific requirement to do so.
 
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brycenesbitt

Senior Member
Location
United States
I also have been known to have a sheet metal bracket made that has the CB mounted behind it that fits through a rectangular slot in a panel. I think I used 12 or 14 gauge, but I don't recall any specific requirement to do so.
I've been rejected for having a local sheet metal shop make punch out a panel,
to replace a missing deadfront. Mr. Picky City Inspector said it had to be listed.


--
I'm still murky on the red line dividing between panelboard and UL508a and listed electrical box with stuff in it.
 

petersonra

Senior Member
Location
Northern illinois
Occupation
engineer
I've been rejected for having a local sheet metal shop make punch out a panel,
to replace a missing deadfront. Mr. Picky City Inspector said it had to be listed.


--
I'm still murky on the red line dividing between panelboard and UL508a and listed electrical box with stuff in it.
The inspector is probably wrong. Type 1 metal enclosures are not required to be listed.
 

Jraef

Moderator, OTD
Staff member
Location
San Francisco Bay Area, CA, USA
Occupation
Electrical Engineer
'm still murky on the red line dividing between panelboard and UL508a and listed electrical box with stuff in it.
Panelboard: listed under UL 67, contains circuit breakers, bus bar, circuit breaker accessories. You technically cannot put other things into a UL67 listed panelboard that are not already listed to be put in there.

UL508A is a program by which a panel shop can use a "procedure" approved by UL to assemble an Industrial Control Panels (ICPs) using other listed products and apply an overall UL listing to the assembly. There is a table (SA1.1) in the UL508A standard that lists all of the other UL standards that are valid to use in a 508A listed assembly. UL67 is NOT one of them. So you cannot, for example, use the guts out of a UL67 listed panelboard as a means of distributing power to a bunch of circuit breakers that then feed motor starters in the same panel, because the UL67 listing is not acceptable to a UL 508A procedure. On a case by case basis, if you happen to have a UL inspector handy when you want to do something like that, they may allow it, but without that, you could risk losing your listing status. But for sure, you cannot use UL508A to built a UL67 listed panelboard. You CAN however, find UL508 listed bus bar assemblies and bus mounting accessories for attaching circuit breakers to them, and build up the EQUIVALENT to a panelboard from that. It will however likely cost you 3-4x what a factory panelboard would cost...

Dead fronts in a UL508A panel would technically have to be listed under UL50 as part of an enclosure assembly. Most of the enclosure manufacturers have those options available. But would a UL inspector pull your license for using a custom made piece of sheet metal for that purpose? I doubt it. As to gauge, I used to see specs that called for "minimum 14ga flat mild steel, or lighter gauge formed and fabricated to have equivalent rigidify to 14ga". Most of the ones we used were 16ga with a bent lip to stiffen it.
 

petersonra

Senior Member
Location
Northern illinois
Occupation
engineer
I have put UL listed panelboards inside of a UL listed enclosure pretty often though. It is often a cost effective way of doing power distribution, although it can eat up space. The DIN rail mounted breakers use less space. Plus they come in more ratings.

Not that long ago I could buy single pole ten Amp breakers for a QO panel for about $4. A 12 slot panel board to put them in was maybe $50. A neat package if all I needed was ten and fifteen Amp CBs. Could put padlock attachments on them too.
 

Jraef

Moderator, OTD
Staff member
Location
San Francisco Bay Area, CA, USA
Occupation
Electrical Engineer
I have put UL listed panelboards inside of a UL listed enclosure pretty often though. It is often a cost effective way of doing power distribution, although it can eat up space. The DIN rail mounted breakers use less space. Plus they come in more ratings.

Not that long ago I could buy single pole ten Amp breakers for a QO panel for about $4. A 12 slot panel board to put them in was maybe $50. A neat package if all I needed was ten and fifteen Amp CBs. Could put padlock attachments on them too.
Yep, I did it too, for 480V distribution on machine control panels where I had multiple 25HP+ motors on the same machine. My UL inspector allowed it.

But later, I discovered the DIN rail IEC style Motor Protector Switches with their own power distribution buses; they were cheaper, easier, used less space. At first those were only UL listed up to 32A, then once they went to 64A the old way became pointless.
 
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