UL508A panels - is this a violation?

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rustydud

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Guys,

I have a control panel built and UL508A certified. From a UL508A shop.
The control panel wiring is modified after the panel leaves the UL shop. I was told this is a violation.
Where specifically in UL508A or UL508 standards does it say this is a violation?

Thanks.
 
rustydud said:
Guys,

I have a control panel built and UL508A certified. From a UL508A shop.
The control panel wiring is modified after the panel leaves the UL shop. I was told this is a violation.
Where specifically in UL508A or UL508 standards does it say this is a violation?

Thanks.
Click to expand...

It is like any other UL listed equipment. The listing is how it left the factory. What happens to it after it leaves the factory is not a concern of UL.

Whether it is a "violation" or not depends on what code or standard you think has been violated. it does not violate UL508a because UL508a does not address field modifications.
 
I think it also might depend on the term "modified". If for example when it arrived, something in the logic was incorrect and fixing that changed the wiring of the existing control circuit components, but no new components were added, it may not be a "violation" per se.
 
rustydud said:
Guys,

I have a control panel built and UL508A certified. From a UL508A shop.
The control panel wiring is modified after the panel leaves the UL shop. I was told this is a violation.
Where specifically in UL508A or UL508 standards does it say this is a violation?

Thanks.
Click to expand...

There is nothing in UL508A that states that a modification of the wiring is a violation.

What happens is that when a Listed product, whether it is a 508A Control panel or a Listed appliance etc, is modified after it leaves the factory or shop, UL has no way to guarantee that the product still meets the applicable standards without a field evaluation.

Chris
 
raider1

Is it not a safe assumption that as long as the incoming POWER OCP is not modified, that any change in CONTROL side function is moot relative to listing ?
 
MyCleveland said:
raider1

Is it not a safe assumption that as long as the incoming POWER OCP is not modified, that any change in CONTROL side function is moot relative to listing ?
Click to expand...

I think there is a misunderstanding of what a listing is. It is how it left the factory. What happens to it afterwards has nothing to do with the listing.

There are sometimes things the listing specifically allows to be done in the field, but beyond those minor things what happens in the field is not relevant to the listing itself.
 
Jraef said:
I think it also might depend on the term "modified".
Click to expand...

Another example, customer moves to new facility with different system.
I change control transformer taps and fuses.
OL relays on starters.
Add remote start/stop and EPO more convenient for operator.

Violation? Never give it a second thought.
 
chris kennedy said:
Another example, customer moves to new facility with different system.
I change control transformer taps and fuses.
OL relays on starters.
Add remote start/stop and EPO more convenient for operator.

Violation? Never give it a second thought.
Click to expand...

The required ul508a name plate tells you what the input voltage is and the short circuit current rating. But again it's as it left the factory. If you do something to it in the field that does not affect the listing as it left the factory. I agree I would not give it much of a thought other than the fact that it might affect the short circuit current rating. It might also affect the required overcurrent protection rating of some of the internal components especially if you went to a lower voltage. I think we need to stop obsessing over whether we are violating the listing. It's not like the listing is some magic talisman.
 
GoldDigger said:
To some inspectors it is. No talisman, no crossing the troll bridge.
Click to expand...

i've had inspectors turn down a panel because the fuse label was incorrect. then when the new fuse label showed up, he demanded that UL field inspect the panel because it was modified. :jawdrop:
 
drktmplr12 said:
i've had inspectors turn down a panel because the fuse label was incorrect. then when the new fuse label showed up, he demanded that UL field inspect the panel because it was modified. :jawdrop:
Click to expand...
If fuses are required as the main OCPD, UL508A states that the main label for the panel must state the fuse size and type used. If that was done wrong by the panel builder, the inspector was correct in that the label cannot be applied in the field by anyone other than UL. Were that allowed, there would be a lot more falsifying of UL labels than there already is. The only viable alternative would have been to remove the panel and send it back to the panel builder. When I was a panel builder my shop foreman, who was responsible for final inspection, made that mistake once and I had to eat the entire cost of the field inspection (the panel was already wired up). Cost me over $5k for a panel I built and sold for $5k.

I still miss that money... :weeping:
 
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