Under & over cabinet wiring

[goldstar]

I recently posted a reply to a thread regarding overcabinet and under cabinet lighting and wiring where I mentioned that there was an approved wiring method for these lights. I've come to find out at my supply house that there is not a universally approved wire or wiring method for this type of lighting.

As I understand it, there are some inspectors who will allow the use of landscape wire or , in some cases, lamp cord to be used for this purpose. If the wire runs within the cabinet they seem to allow either but the rub comes in when it's concealed inside the walls. Perhaps if it's a straight run to the basement, as someone mentioned, it would be acceptable but again it depends on the inspector. So I apologize for any mis-direction or mis-information that I published here and we're back to square 1.

If anyone knows of a type of wire that we can use with these stupid hockey puck halogen lights would you please publish it to the forum ?

Thanks,

Phil Bufis,
Gold Star Electric
Ringwood, NJ

 

[hurk27]

Re: Under & over cabinet wiring

Yes standered wiring N/M, Conduit,M/C Etc...
There is nothing that says that 600 volt wire can't be used with low voltage other then two system's can't be mixed.

 

[electricmanscott]

Re: Under & over cabinet wiring

Just because an inspector says something is ok does not mean that it is. I would get it in writing! You must use a wiring method specified in chapter three Lamp cord is not allowed to be concealed in the wall.

 

[george t. everett]

Re: Under & over cabinet wiring

I have been looking for an easy and approved way of connecting these lights for a while. I don't think N M is an easy way. I don't like butt connectors on solid wire for this installation. I hope someone has a better idea.

 

[hurk27]

Re: Under & over cabinet wiring

What about 3/8 flex or smurf tub with stranded thhn? and there is n/m that you can order that is stranded that would be aproved for in the wall install. I my self run zip cord fished down inbetween the cabnets and locate the receptacle's above the cabnets this way there out of site and out of mind a few times I had the carpenters install a false bottem inside the cabnets if the cabnets didn't have any space underneth them. like the ones that are flat accross the bottom or just give me a channel to run in and in other cases I used the plastic 3/8" wire mold to run my wires in. it works real nice and comes with double sided tape on it and the cover just clips shut.

 

[rwp]

Re: Under & over cabinet wiring

For 120V fluorescent under cabinet lights I used 16AWG, 3/C, 300V, SJOOW cord purchase at Home Depot. The cord was connected in an existing cabinet mounted microwave receptacle surface box. The cord is neatly routed inside the cabinets and secured with insulated staples, and out the bottom to the lights. I used gromets to protect the cord at the receptacle box and at all lights. I do have a short length of cord inside the wall to a new switch installed below the cabinets.

 

[txsparky]

Re: Under & over cabinet wiring

rwp,
As neat and workmanlike as you make the installation sound,it is still a violation of 400.8 Uses Not Permitted

 

[harold endean]

Re: Under & over cabinet wiring

As for low voltage lights and their wirng method, it is not up to the contractor or the inspector as to what is allowed. The NEC says sec. 411-3 "...only where listed and labeled..." and sec. 411-4 "...not concealed in wall unless it is wired as per chapter 3..." So then we look under Sec. 400-8 which does not allow any flex cord to be used in the wall. If you get a complete lighting system that is listed, then you are allowed to use it. That means the light, the teansformer, and the wire. All has to be listed as one unit. If not then you can use RX wire, AC or MC wire in the wall. Smurf tube and THHN will also work. Another option would be to run everything through the cabinet. This way it is not in the wall. I know people don't like these rules, but we can try to get it changed by writing in a code change proposal.

 

[goldstar]

Re: Under & over cabinet wiring

I think that getting a change in the code is possible but since the 2002 code just came out we'd be looking at another 3 years, if we're lucky, to get the change approved. Why couldn't we get wire manufacturers to manufacture roamex in a twisted and stranded version (without an EGC..similar to fire alarm cable FPLP, etc.). That way we might be able to use a staple gun to secure onto the studs. Or maybe not......that's too easy !!!

[ March 15, 2003, 04:25 PM: Message edited by: goldstar ]

 

[electricmanscott]

Re: Under & over cabinet wiring

Goldstar, here are staple guns available that shoot romex staples. RWP, I agree with Tx, your installation is not legal by NEC standards. You can not use flexible cord as a substitute for fixed wiring. Also it should not be connected to the microwave circuit.

 

[kelley]

Re: Under & over cabinet wiring

seagull makes a cable for its ambiance undercabinet light system that might work for the puck lights. i think the ambiance sytem is far superior than using the puck system

 

[harold endean]

Re: Under & over cabinet wiring

I have a e-mail memo from a Mr.James Dingman from UL. He wrote to me and said, "With respect to the low voltage light fixtures, there are units Listed as complete fixtures. They are not to be installed inside of walls. I have included the Guide Information for this catagory (IFDR) for your review. Complete Listings of all manufactures in this catagory can be found in UL's Electrical Construction Equipment Directory or on-line at www.ul.com." The UL book that he is talking about is the UL GREEN book. It shows the electrical equipment that has UL listed.

 

[goldstar]

Re: Under & over cabinet wiring

Is SJO cord approved for use inside walls ? (There's no connection for the EGC on "hockey puck" fixtures). If it is that might be a solution to this dilema. Installing "smurf tube" is an alternative but it seems laborious and costly to me. Am I wrong on this ?

By the way, there is a company that makes a product called "Counter-Attack" (that, in fact, might be the name of the company and I believe they are out of California). An 18" long x 4" wide fixture is about 1 1/8" in height and has 3 halogen bulbs in it. There's a 3 position rocker switch on it (dim-off-bright). These are line voltage units, they work great and install in 5 minutes.

Who makes the Ambiance lighting system ? (Or is that the name of the company ?)

Has anyone used the Arrow staple gun for RX ? Is it worth the price of the gun ?. Just curious.

Thanks to all of you for your replies.

[ March 17, 2003, 05:34 AM: Message edited by: goldstar ]

 

[rwp]

Re: Under & over cabinet wiring

That is correct, cord is not allowed inside walls.
I will install a small cabinet below the other cabinets for the switch, and remove the cord from inside wall.
Thanks.

 

[kelley]

Re: Under & over cabinet wiring

ambiance is made by sea gull lighting.....www.seagulllighting.com

 

[electricmanscott]

Re: Under & over cabinet wiring

Why do people insist on using the pucks anyway? They are junk. They are very difficult to install in a code compliant manner. BUT they are dirt cheap. There are a bunch of good halogen fixtures that are far easier to install. Good quality. BUT they are expensive.

 

[iwire]

Re: Under & over cabinet wiring

Initial cost always seems to prevail, the average homeowners have no idea things are junk or really can not be installed in a code compliant way