underground marking ribbon

[ceb58]

Is there another code article other than 300.5 (D) (3) that requires marking ribbon in the ditch. Have an inspector failing a install because there was not RED marking ribbon placed in the ditch over the conduit. The run is from a ground mounted solar array to the inverter. The wire is in ridged metallic conduit ( RMC ) at a depth of 12 inches which well complies with table 300.5. These conductors are not service conductors and do not meet any other requirement in 300.5 (D) (3).

 

[ActionDave]

The only time marking tape is required in the NEC is for direct buried service conductors

 

[infinity]

I agree with Dave, this is a common non-violation that inspectors seems to cite regularly.

 

[Greentagger]

I’ll take the bait. I agree with the OP that these are not service conductors,…………..but I’ll disagree that service conductors don’t require marking tape. Per 300.5(D)(3), isnt the verbage”are not encased in concrete”. What conductor insulation is rated for concrete encasement? Learn me guys. You have before. Thanks.

 

[ActionDave]

I’ll take the bait. I agree with the OP that these are not service conductors,…………..but I’ll disagree that service conductors don’t require marking tape. Per 300.5(D)(3), isnt the verbage”are not encased in concrete”. What conductor insulation is rated for concrete encasement? Learn me guys. You have before. Thanks.

You are correct about the wording in 300.5(D)(3). I remember service conductors only needing to be in conduit to not need marking tape. Either way non service conductors need marking tape none of the time.

 

[romex jockey]

Would an SDS have 'service conductors'? ~RJ~

 

[infinity]

Would an SDS have 'service conductors'? ~RJ~

Nope.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Would an SDS have 'service conductors'? ~RJ~

Service Conductors.
The conductors from the service point to the service disconnecting means. (CMP-10)

 

[don_resqcapt19]

I’ll take the bait. I agree with the OP that these are not service conductors,…………..but I’ll disagree that service conductors don’t require marking tape. Per 300.5(D)(3), isnt the verbage”are not encased in concrete”. What conductor insulation is rated for concrete encasement? Learn me guys. You have before. Thanks.

The language in that section is poor as you are correct that you cannot directly buried service conductors in concrete. Also list item (4) should be a part of list item (1) and that is the only part that (4) applies to.

That being said, the parent text says, "Direct-buried conductors and cables". Nothing in 300.5(D) applies to conductors or cables in raceways. The rule only applies to conductors or cables that are placed directly in the earth.

 

[romex jockey]

Service Conductors.
The conductors from the service point to the service disconnecting means. (CMP-10)

Thx Don
so would this apply to a PV array, Genset, etc that was an SDS then?

~RJ~

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Thx Don
so would this apply to a PV array, Genset, etc that was an SDS then?

~RJ~

It only applies to directly buried service conductors that are installed by other than the utility. "Service lateral" conductors do not require the ribbon, but "service conductors, underground" do require it. An SDS is not a service and does not have service conductors.

Note that often project specifications will require the warning ribbon.

 

[romex jockey]

An SDS is not a service and does not have service conductors.

Thx but..... that's rather confusing, considering it stands for Separately Derived SERVICE Don

~RJ~

 

[anbm]

It only applies to directly buried service conductors that are installed by other than the utility. "Service lateral" conductors do not require the ribbon, but "service conductors, underground" do require it. An SDS is not a service and does not have service conductors.

Note that often project specifications will require the warning ribbon.

I am wondering why someone would install service conductors without conduit for underground run?

 

[retirede]

Thx but..... that's rather confusing, considering it stands for Separately Derived SERVICE Don

~RJ~

I had always thought it was “Separately Derived System.”
Wouldn’t be the first time I’m wrong!

 

[ptonsparky]

I am wondering why someone would install service conductors without conduit for underground run?

Money. Low bid.

 

[packersparky]

Thx but..... that's rather confusing, considering it stands for Separately Derived SERVICE Don

~RJ~

Separately Derived System. An electrical source, other than a service, having no direct connection(s) to circuit conductors of any other electrical source other than those established by grounding and bonding connections. (CMP-5)

 

[romex jockey]

the NEC is nothing if not an exercise in semantics fellas.....~RJ~

 

[petersonra]

I am wondering why someone would install service conductors without conduit for underground run?

I would guess to save money. Not the worst reason in the world to do something.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Thx but..... that's rather confusing, considering it stands for Separately Derived SERVICE Don

~RJ~

System and not service. Service conductors are those conductors that connect directly to the power company system. Conductors that connect to any other system, are not service conductors.

 

[Fred B]

I've been installing these regardless of minimum requirements, I've been using the traceable type. If someone digs up one of mine they've got no excuse. I've seen too many damaged pipe or conductors from guys digging. Had one guy excavating hit one in conduit hooking it with a backhoe and ripped meter right off the building and conductor off the pole and snapped wire in half. Close to 500ft of conductors. They got 811 marking but that only covers the utility side not private feeders. Anything after service drop is private according to 811.