underground trench warning tape.

[voltairzap]

Where in the NEC is the specific requirement for the warning tape in underground trenches?

We have been doing it for years, but can't find the Code requirements.

 

[cds9044]

I'm not sure if it's in the NEC. Probaly a POCO requirement.

 

[raider1]

Take a look at 300.5(D)(3).

This requirement is for service conductors only.

Chris

 

[don_resqcapt19]

This requirement is for service conductors only.

And only when they are installed in an open trench. It is not required if the service conductors are installed using directional boring.
Don

 

[stickboy1375]

And only when they are installed in an open trench. It is not required if the service conductors are installed using directional boring.
Don

Wonder why that is? :roll:

 

[480sparky]

Wonder why that is? :roll:

Um, siimple. Just try to bore a warning tape in 12" above your cable.

 

[RB1]

The requirement applies only to direct buried cables.

 

[raider1]

The requirement applies only to direct buried cables.

Correct. 300.5(D) deals with direct buried conductors and cables.

Chris

 

[mikeames]

Um, siimple. Just try to bore a warning tape in 12" above your cable.

Now that was funny. No disrespect anyone, I just got a good laugh out of that.

 

[480sparky]

Now that was funny. No disrespect anyone, I just got a good laugh out of that.

I'm sure there's someone out there in Electricland that thought it could be done...:grin:

 

[stickboy1375]

Now that was funny. No disrespect anyone, I just got a good laugh out of that.

My original post was suppose to be funny, 480 just kicked it up a notch...:grin:

 

[don_resqcapt19]

I have a problem with this rule. Either the conductors are safe with the tape or they are not, but the safety of the installation does not change with the installation method.

3-49 Log #2232 NEC-P03 Final Action: Reject
(300.5(D)(3))
____________________________________________________________
Submitter: Donald A. Ganiere, Ottawa, IL
Recommendation: Revise as follows:
(3) Service Conductors. Underground service conductors that are not encased
in concrete and that are buried 450 mm (18 in.) or more below grade shall have
their location identified by a warning ribbon that is placed in the trench at least
300 mm (12 in.) above the underground installation.
Substantiation: The potential hazard from a “dig-in” accident is not changed
by the method used to install the conductors. If service conductors installed in
a trench present a hazard, then so do service conductors installed by directional
boring or other “trenchless” methods. The warning ribbon requirement should
apply to all underground service conductors or to none of the underground
service conductors. The panel should not consider the additional costs required
to install the warning ribbon when “trenchless” installation methods are used.
The only consideration should be the safety of the system, and if trenched in
service conductors require a warning ribbon for safety reasons, then so do
service conductors installed using other methods of installation.
Panel Meeting Action: Reject
Panel Statement: The only way to install a warning ribbon 12-inches above a
bored hole containing service conductors would be to drill an additional hole
with the ribbon inserted in the hole and pulled through from one location to
another or to dig a trench to a depth 12-inches above the cable. In addition,
since the ribbon would be installed in a drilled hole, the inspector would not
be able to verify the depth of the ribbon as being 12-inches above the service
conductors.
Number Eligible to Vote: 13
Ballot Results: Affirmative: 12 Negative: 1
Explanation of Negative:
CASPARRO, P.: See my explanation of negative vote on Proposal 3-38.

3-30 Log #2256 NEC-P03 Final Action: Reject
(300.5(D)(3))
____________________________________________________________
Submitter: Donald A. Ganiere, Ottawa, IL
Comment on Proposal No: 3-49
Recommendation: The panel should accept this proposal.
Substantiation: The panel statement says that if a safety rule is difficult or
expensive to comply with then we don’t need it in the code. The “warning
ribbon” rule is intended to provide some protection in the form of a warning
ribbon to someone who is digging in the area of the underground service cable.
The method of original installation does not change the level of hazard to
the future digger. They are just as hurt or killed if they dig into an energized
service cable that was installed using directional boring equipment as one that
was installed using conventional trenching. If this is really a hazard to future
workers, then they deserve the protection of a warning ribbon no matter what
cable installation method was used. If it is not really a hazard, then the rule
should be deleted from the code, but you can’t have it both ways. The panel
statement says one is safe to the future digger and the other is a hazard, when
in reality there is no difference in the level of hazard involved.
Panel Meeting Action: Reject
Panel Statement: The only way to install a warning ribbon 12 inches above a
bored hole containing service conductors would be to drill an additional hole
with the ribbon inserted in the hole and pulled through from one location to
another or to dig a trench to a depth 12 inches above the cable. In addition,
since the ribbon would be installed in a drilled hole, the inspector would not
be able to verify the depth of the ribbon as being 12 inches above the service
conductors. Unenforceable requirements must not be inserted into the NEC.
Number Eligible to Vote: 13
Ballot Results: Affirmative: 13

 

[nakulak]

I disagree with the above. over the last 30 yrs I've dug up every kind of utility there is, and in my opinon "warning tape with some type of embedded metal or foil should be installed wherever it is practical to do so". It would save a lot of people a lot of money, a lot of time, and in some cases it would save lives. Just because it is impractical to place above borings doesn't mean it isn't practical to place in most other locations. The intent of the code is to make things as safe as possible - just because a bit of code may not apply to every situation does not make it a bad rule. the life it saves just might be my own.

 

[goindowner]

480 it can be done. I have had to do it. The inspector would not pass otherwise. The directional boring contractor thought it was a joke too. Three hundred feet under a concrete parking lot. I do not know how close it was to the service run or if it followed the same path.

 

[cschmid]

I have been doing this trade this for many many years every cable I have seen dug up are done with big desiel shovels and last time I checked the shovels come in various sizes the most common is 36in depth..now if you are down 2ft he can get it with the first shovel full so what really does the tape protect..the home owner digging in a tree that he just got and never called to locate..that is the only purpose of the tape..the professional contractors have the digs located and most even own their own locators..so they can save accidents and laws suits..but regardless we use tape in every trench we dig..never know what will happen as my boss thinks it is BS to call for locate every time you dig..he will dig no locate..I locate regardless of his ideas..

 

[nakulak]

I'm guessing your boss hasn't been around flames shooting a hundred feet in the air. we always call for locate, then we locate after the locaters. we still hit stuff.

 

[petersonra]

IMO, the chances of hitting a buried cable are about the same with or w/o the caution tape.

I say put it in when it is practical, but don't get obsessed over it.

 

[cschmid]

I'm guessing your boss hasn't been around flames shooting a hundred feet in the air. we always call for locate, then we locate after the locaters. we still hit stuff.

LMAO Maybe not flames but he has caused some damage..

 

[cowboyjwc]

I've seen many specs that require red slurry. If you're going to protect it protect it. I agree that red tape isn't going to do much to stop a back hoe.