Underground water pipe supplement electrode

[hhsting]

Please see attached sketch. I have main service disconnect and from there grounding electrode conductor to steel and from steel bonding jumper to water pipe, to concrete encased electrode.

Does the underground water pipe need supplemental electrode or does steel or concrete encased electrode count as supplemental where they are connected?

 

[infinity]

A CEE is permitted to be the supplemental electrode for the water pipe.

 

[tom baker]

Hopefully in 20 years only the old timers will remember installing ground rods.

 

[hhsting]

Hopefully in 20 years only the old timers will remember installing ground rods.

Tom I don’t follow. Does it require ground rods or do you mean something else?

 

[tom baker]

I mean with a ufer ground a supplemental ground is not required and in the future the practice of driving two and going home will be forgotten

 

[hhsting]

I mean with a ufer ground a supplemental ground is not required and in the future the practice of driving two and going home will be forgotten

Well in my case this is new building and AHJ has local amendment any new buildings concrete encased electrode is required and in compliance with NEC 2014 Section 250.52(A)(3).

Otherwise yea contractors would provide ground rods I guess in place of concrete encased electrode.

 

[infinity]

Well in my case this is new building and AHJ has local amendment any new buildings concrete encased electrode is required and in compliance with NEC 2014 Section 250.52(A)(3).

Otherwise yea contractors would provide ground rods I guess in place of concrete encased electrode.

If there is 1/2" or larger rebar in the footing in direct contact with the earth then the CEE is required. I think that Tom is saying is that CEE's are the new norm so ground rods should fade away for new construction.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Well in my case this is new building and AHJ has local amendment any new buildings concrete encased electrode is required and in compliance with NEC 2014 Section 250.52(A)(3).

Otherwise yea contractors would provide ground rods I guess in place of concrete encased electrode.

I don't understand the need for an amendment to require the use of concrete encased electrodes.. The code has required that you use the re-bar in the concrete as grounding electrode since the 99 code. A building with a concrete footing or foundation that does not have at least 20' of #4 rebar is very rare around here.

 

[Joe.B]

In my area the foundation ground (CEE, Ufer) has been a difficult thing for local builders to come around to. In the early days the electricians knew about it but the builders often had the foundation poured before they got there. One Electrician here has been working here for over 30 years had made a point of going to each new house he was going to work on and he would stub out a piece of rebar to connect too later and the contractors would usually cut it off. So then he switched to a piece of copper clamped to the rebar and that got the contractors attention and they would often not cut it, but it would get damaged or stolen. Then for a long time none of the local AHJ's were enforcing it so it rarely happened. In older houses that did/do have a foundation ground installed it is often hard to identify (i.e. service upgrade or solar) so electricians would end up driving ground rods anyways. I won't sign off on a foundation that doesn't have one installed and I have been recommending to the Electricians to label the ground as such so there is no question later on down the road. I agree that there will be a day when ground rods are an antiquated product.