Unistrut roof support wind rating disapproved

[Charlypt]

Hello
We recently redid an installation on a roof, based in unistrut, for support disconnects that feed AC machines.
We replaced the 40 years old unistruts and basically repeated the same type of installation, attaching the unistrut post to unistrut post bases anchored to the concrete deck. All this bases ended under the roof insulation that was replaced, then sealed by roofers.
Then the project architect appear after all the work was finished and he said that unistrut support is not wind approval, and we have to use a kind of pipe support engineered for that purpose, that it have a Notice Of Approval (NOA) from Miami-Dade authorities.
We don’t have anything in the prints or contract that specify that we have to use this special wind rating support.
The original installation, almost the same that we did now, resist 40 years of hurricanes in Florida, and I pretty sure it could resist 40 years more.
All people are freak out after the hurricane Ian, and some builders start to ask for exaggerated exigencies.
We can’t find any information about the wind resistance of unistrut post stands, but I believe the load specifications comply with the wind rating required. And the survival record of this kind of installation speaks for itself.
How we can deal with this situation?

 

[qcroanoke]

Just searching: This is for Miami/Dade which is way stricter than the rest of Florida and this is for raceways not sure if they have anything for disconnects or panels.

Pipe Prop Receives Miami-Dade NOA - Pipe Prop

Pipe Prop, a popular, easy-to-install adjustable pipe support system, has a version with the Miami-Dade NOA (Notice of Acceptance) for electrical conduit.

pipeprop.com

 

[Charlypt]

Just searching:

Pipe Prop Receives Miami-Dade NOA - Pipe Prop

Pipe Prop, a popular, easy-to-install adjustable pipe support system, has a version with the Miami-Dade NOA (Notice of Acceptance) for electrical conduit.

pipeprop.com

Yes, I believe the architect was talking about this support, but this means that if the support don’t have a NOA we can’t use it? I am sure of steel beams don’t have a NOA for this kind of installation. Are not considered other loads specifications?

 

[Charlypt]

Just searching: This is for Miami/Dade which is way stricter than the rest of Florida and this is for raceways not sure if they have anything for disconnects or panels.

Pipe Prop Receives Miami-Dade NOA - Pipe Prop

Pipe Prop, a popular, easy-to-install adjustable pipe support system, has a version with the Miami-Dade NOA (Notice of Acceptance) for electrical conduit.

pipeprop.com

We are not working in Miami-Dade County, but many counties seems that follow the NOAs of Dade county.

 

[roger]

If an Architect is visiting the site there should be drawings and specifications for the project. If that is the case there is probably some wording in the contract documents to the effect of "this contractor is responsible for compliance with all applicable codes"

According to the link the support does have the Miami-Dade NOA.

 

[Charlypt]

If an Architect is visiting the site there should be drawings and specifications for the project. If that is the case there is probably some wording in the contract documents to the effect of "this contractor is responsible for compliance with all applicable codes"

According to the link the support does have the Miami-Dade NOA.

There are not specifications about the support in the documents and yes, the contractor must follow the local codes. But many materials don’t have any “code”, they have specifications calculated by engineers. For example, I pretty sure that the screws and braces that you gonna use for support all this installation don’t have any NOA, they have loads specifications enough to comply.

 

[augie47]

Cynical in my old age but 1st thought was wondering what politic were involved in getting that "approved"

 

[roger]

Every item may not be mentioned in the contract documents but that will not help in arguing your point. I agree it is Bull, unistrut would be my preferred choice.

 

[roger]

Cynical in my old age but 1st thought was wondering what politic were involved in getting that "approved"

I'm sure there was something going on.

Seems to me South Florida has bigger worries with overdevelopment than conduit support.

There is too much feces to go for a swim in this Miami-area beach, health agency says

Two consecutive beach water samples collected at this location did not meet the recreational water quality standard for enterococci.

sports.yahoo.com

 

[Charlypt]

I'm sure there was something going on.

Seems to me South Florida has bigger worries with overdevelopment than conduit support.

There is too much feces to go for a swim in this Miami-area beach, health agency says

Two consecutive beach water samples collected at this location did not meet the recreational water quality standard for enterococci.

sports.yahoo.com

I don’t know, it is a old local government building, that they spent a lot of money remodeling instead built a new one.

 

[brantmacga]

Then the project architect appear after all the work was finished and he said that unistrut support is not wind approval, and we have to use a kind of pipe support engineered for that purpose, that it have a Notice Of Approval (NOA) from Miami-Dade authorities.

That's typical; depending on project size and complexity, someone from the A/E team will usually do at minimum a final inspection. On many of the jobs I work on, they'll show up at milestone intervals to verify the project is being built to plan.

We don’t have anything in the prints or contract that specify that we have to use this special wind rating support.

In the drawings or specification book, there will be a line that states you are ultimately responsible for building in compliance with local codes & ordinances. That is SOP on any project. Any time I'm in a new town, or a town I haven't worked in for some time, I'll request a copy of local codes & ordinances. But draw a line from Ft. Pierce to Venice..... I won't go south of that for work.

The original installation, almost the same that we did now, resist 40 years of hurricanes in Florida, and I pretty sure it could resist 40 years more.

I was in a building this weekend built in 1897 with functioning K&T wiring. If it doesn't burn down before then, it'll probably be there another 100 years.

All people are freak out after the hurricane Ian, and some builders start to ask for exaggerated exigencies.
We can’t find any information about the wind resistance of unistrut post stands, but I believe the load specifications comply with the wind rating required. And the survival record of this kind of installation speaks for itself.
How we can deal with this situation?

Unfortunately I think you are going to have to replace all of your supports. The product @qcroanoke linked would work. There's no certification I'm aware of for a standard strut support base; and more than just the base, but the method of attachment has to be tested & certified.

 

[Charlypt]

Unfortunately I think you are going to have to replace all of your supports. The product @qcroanoke linked would work. There's no certification I'm aware of for a standard strut support base; and more than just the base, but the method of attachment has to be tested & certified.

I am sure that unistrut systems are pretty tested and certified for many applications, but still don’t have a NOA from Miami-Dade. Neither the bolts, brackets, nuts, screws, and many material that we use every day.
Even I am trying of find any reference of Unistrut in the Florida Building Code site, and nothing.
This means that all the outside installation based in unistrut anywhere are not legal?

 

[brantmacga]

I am sure that unistrut systems are pretty tested and certified for many applications, but still don’t have a NOA from Miami-Dade.

You will have to use the general engineering guide from your strut manufacturer to determine the installation method that meets your project requirements.

Neither the bolts, brackets, nuts, screws, and many material that we use every day.

Yeh again you would use the engineering guide from the manufacturer to determine what exact specifications are needed to meet your mechanical needs.

Even I am trying of find any reference of Unistrut in the Florida Building Code site, and nothing.
This means that all the outside installation based in unistrut anywhere are not legal?

Florida is on the 2017 NEC; Article 384 covers strut channel. In your installation though, its more than the strength of the strut system that has to be considered; what they are concerned with is whether or not your installation will separate from the roof and become a projectile in a storm. The pipe stands with the Miami-Dade NOA stamp are certified based on a specific mechanical connection method to the structure. In the case of the Pipe Prop linked above, it uses a specific adhesive to bond it to the roof structure.

 

[Charlypt]

You will have to use the general engineering guide from your strut manufacturer to determine the installation method that meets your project requirements.

My point. If you have engineering specifications that said the product resist a load x, that maybe exceed the load that wind can exert, then you don’t need a NOA.
The same for bolts, etc.

 

[Charlypt]

Florida is on the 2017 NEC; Article 384 covers strut channel.

Indeed. No problem with the electrical inspection.

In your installation though, its more than the strength of the strut system that has to be considered; what they are concerned with is whether or not your installation will separate from the roof and become a projectile in a storm. The pipe stands with the Miami-Dade NOA stamp are certified based on a specific mechanical connection method to the structure. In the case of the Pipe Prop linked above, it uses a specific adhesive to bond it to the roof structure.

I found this:

Florida Administrative Code 61G20-3.001 Scope.​

(1) Products in the following categories as defined by subcategories of subsection 61G20-3.002(33) [pasted below], F.A.C., shall be available for approval by the Commission pursuant to Rule 61G20-3.007,F.A.C., for use in the state

• Panel Walls
• Exterior Doors
• Roofing Products
• Skylights
• Windows
• Shutters
• Structural Components
• Impact Protection Systems

Florida Administrative Code 61G20-3.002 Definitions.​

(23) Product means any individual type of manufactured goods, system or method of construction.

(24) Product Approval:

State product approval means the approval of a product or system of construction by the Commission for acceptance of a product on a state or regional basis consistent with an evaluation conducted pursuant to Rule 61G20-3.005, F.A.C. In addition, this includes the approval of a product by the Department pursuant to paragraph 61G20-3.007(1)(d), F.A.C.

(33) Subcategory of product or construction system means a specific functionality:

(a) For exterior door:

1. Exterior door assemblies: roll-up, sectional, sliding, swinging, automatic; pre-engineered roof access hatches; and products introduced as a result of new technology;
2. Exterior door components and products introduced as a result of new technology;

(b) For windows: awning, casement, dual-action, double-hung, single hung, fixed, horizontal slider, projected, pass through, mullions, and products introduced as a result of new technology;

(c) For panel walls: siding, soffits, exterior insulation finish system (EIFS), storefronts, curtain walls, wall louver, glass block, and products introduced as a result of new technology;

(d) For roofing products: built-up roofing, modified bitumen roof system, single-ply roof systems, spray-applied polyurethane roof system, roofing fasteners, roofing insulation, asphalt shingles, wood shingles and shakes, roofing slate, roof tile adhesives, cements-adhesives-coatings, liquid applied roof systems, underlayments, metal roofing, roofing tiles, waterproofing, roofing accessories that are an integral part of the roofing system and products introduced as a result of new technology;

(e) For shutters: accordion, Bahama, storm panels, fabric storm panel, colonial, roll-up, pre-engineered equipment, protection, and products introduced as a result of new technology;

(f) For skylights: skylight, and products introduced as a result of new technology; and

(g) For structural components: truss plates, wood connectors, anchors, exterior coolers-freezers, insulation form systems, engineered lumber, pre-engineered air conditioner stands, structural wall components, and roof deck, and products introduced as a result of new technology.

(h) For impact protective systems include types that are fixed, operable, or removable.


Not mention to electrical system and support.

 

[brantmacga]

My point. If you have engineering specifications that said the product resist a load x, that maybe exceed the load that wind can exert, then you don’t need a NOA.
The same for bolts, etc.

I think the best you can hope for is for them to allow certification of your installation via engineering supervision. In which you'll likely have to hire a structural engineer to review your installation and either certify it as-is or design a fix to bring it into compliance. Depending on how many stands you have, it may be less expensive to just replace them with an NOA stamped product and pay the roofers patch it.

You're not finding this in state regs because it is a local regulation, which municipalities are allowed to enact in FL. Before you do anything, have the architect send you a copy of the regs they are citing. You also need to do your own research and get a copy of all local regulations and addendum to the building code. Also, what did the building inspector say about it?

Product Approval

The Product Control Section receives applications, processes, reviews, and issues approval or denial of building construction materials, products and systems used for the protection of the building envelope.

www.miamidade.gov